bass bar types ?

[Arnold Schnitzer]

Originally Posted by Adrian Levi

I have another question that I want to throw out there about bass bars .

Surely a bass bar with the least amount of mass possible ( ie the smallest dimensions possible ) would be a 'better sounding' bar. Obviously a bar has to provide the optimal support for a top and so it has to have some mass , but luthiers are often talking about adding as few cleats as possible to cracks as not to add too much extra mass to the top ,in order to let the top vibrate to its full potential....

The upside to an undersized bass bar is increased volume and bass response. The downside is increased wolf tones and unevenness. Also, a bass bar that is too weak will lead quickly to collapsing of the top table on the E-string side. Sizing and placing the bass bar just right is a difficult task. Tools I personally use for this task include ruler, protractor, calculator and Ouija board.

[Adam Linz]

Ok, Arnold wins. The Ouiga Board thing made me " almost " piss my pants. I want to buy one of his basses just based on this comment. Thanks for keeping it light and positive Arnold. The bass is hard enough already. Much thanks for the laugh.

[Matthew Tucker]

And furthermore, you want it to be a reliable ouija board, because its not like cutting a new bridge where you can try another blank and swap between the two if you want; you obviously don't know if the bass bar you have made works until you put the top back on and play for a while. And if it doesn't improve things, you're not guaranteed that by removing the top again and shifting the bar over a few mm (big job = new bar) that you'll get an improvement! So ... roll again

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Adam Linz

Ok, Arnold wins. The Ouiga Board thing made me " almost " piss my pants. I want to buy one of his basses just based on this comment. Thanks for keeping it light and positive Arnold. The bass is hard enough already. Much thanks for the laugh.

I suggest that with what ever you know about this Top and its condition you make a judgment call if it's weak or strong and see if it's high or low arched.

Then, put the Bar in big and long. Then trim it back little by little. Slight angle to the grain fanning to the outer lower bout and also plan and measure out the Bridge size and placement. Not all Bar's need to be up against the Fs upper Eyes. Measure their distance across the Eyes first and make sure IF wide, you put it in a little so you can find a bridge that is not too narrow. 150-160mm is the average. Finding a good blank over 165mm is difficult. The Leg, not outer foot should be centered over the bar.

You can take the top off later and trim the bar down if need be. You cant add the wood back so a heavier Bar will just take longer to break in. If too heavy after a year or two, then it can be trimmed down. Give it time as it has to break in. In my experience I would say a 2 year minimum before making judgment after a big restoration. The NEW wood has to settle in.

I have some pics on my website of the Gilkes and Prescott inside with Bar pics and shapes. The Gilkes is a full 3/4 or so and the Prescott more of a 4/4 size. I did have a small, thin, short bar in my big Gamba English bass and we left that in. The Top was perfect so why change it. If later the Top sags, a bigger/longer Bar can be put in. For now, the sound and arch is great, no complaints. The Gilkes Bar was put in by Arnold. The Prescott looks to be its secondary Bar and very old. Arnold did trim it slightly but there was no need to replace it.

[Adrian Levi]

I'd just like to say thanks to Ken & Arnold for taking the time to offer their insight and opinions . I for one really do appreciate the value of this site as I'm sure many others do.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

I want to add that the rules for violin bass bar placement are irrelevant with bass, as the variations in bout widths and f-hole placements are enormous in basses.

[Adrian Levi]

I have one more question regarding bass bars . If you have a bar that is made and placed properly but is in need of say a little more depth to it , why not add wood onto the top of the bar ? This shouldn't be too difficult with the older more plain looking bars I've seen ??

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Adrian Levi

I have one more question regarding bass bars . If you have a bar that is made and placed properly but is in need of say a little more depth to it , why not add wood onto the top of the bar ? This shouldn't be too difficult with the older more plain looking bars I've seen ??

Unless the new added piece can 'grow' into the original and become one it will never work as a bar the modified size. It is not looks and size like a door, it's a structure piece and needs to be all one.