Xue Chang Sun basses?

[Ken Smith]

I highly doubt that the man himself does anything but run the company as far as basses go. Winning awards is usually for making a violin by hand individually. The price for a hand made bass is many times that of a Chinese shop bass which this most likely is.

I personally know Sam Shen who is known for just about the best basses from China. He doesn't make them. His workers do.

I have a couple of basses left that I ordered from a good Chinese maker that sound better than all of the high Shen's I compared them to. They are called 'Amati' model from KSB. If looking to upgrade I suggest you drive down and try either the one I have here or the modified Deluxe model that Arnold has in his shop in NY with a higher quality fingerboard & bridge with a CF Graphite inlaid neck as well.

Take the drive. You will save money and get a good bass education.

[Srikanth Narayanan]

Thanks for the tip. When the time is right I may have to get some friends together and do a road trip. Do you suggest having a standardized "checklist" way to test different basses for sound and playability?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Srikanth Narayanan

Thanks for the tip. When the time is right I may have to get some friends together and do a road trip. Do you suggest having a standardized "checklist" way to test different basses for sound and playability?

Play each bass the same, bow and pizz, same exact music to compare and then listening to another person play for you as you listen close and at a distance. At a distance is how they sound to others.

Here, I will do the playing for you if you come without a bass player. I know a few notes..

[Ken McKay]

X Sun makes nice "Chinese workshop" basses. I have sold quite a few of their violins, cello and violas. I would rate them the best of the chinese instruments I have seen. The workmanship is excellent, finish is well executed.

They are, however still a chinese style bass and are easily identified from across the room. Not a bad thing, just a comment.

[Ken McKay]

Here is the Sinfonica. It is their lowest of their line of all solid wood, carved basses.

www.sinomanmusic.com/images/Big/01-Xuechang-Sun/04Bass/BA-401.jpg

And this has better wood.
http://www.sinomanmusic.com/images/B...ass/BA-402.jpg

And better yet.

http://www.sinomanmusic.com/images/B...ass/BA-406.jpg

[Srikanth Narayanan]

Originally Posted by Ken McKay

Here is the Sinfonica. It is their lowest of their line of all solid wood, carved basses.

www.sinomanmusic.com/images/Big/01-Xuechang-Sun/04Bass/BA-401.jpg

And this has better wood.
http://www.sinomanmusic.com/images/B...ass/BA-402.jpg

And better yet.

http://www.sinomanmusic.com/images/B...ass/BA-406.jpg

Thanks for those links. I went to the Sinomanmusic main website and found out that importer is in nearby Toronto.

[Calvin Marks]

I own a XChang Sun bass "Master" model. It was my first instrument and I still have it but would of course love to sell. Nice instruments at a good price.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Ken McKay

X Sun makes nice "Chinese workshop" basses. I have sold quite a few of their violins, cello and violas. I would rate them the best of the chinese instruments I have seen. The workmanship is excellent, finish is well executed.

They are, however still a chinese style bass and are easily identified from across the room. Not a bad thing, just a comment.

If you can tell they are Chinese from across the room then they are not all that good. I remember playing in an Orchestra several years ago when another bass pro beside me said "is that a NEW Bass?". The bass didn't have any cracks and barely any scratches or mars but didn't look like a new bass. Then when I said "yes, its a Shen, Chinese" it was almost a shock!

One day, a pro bassist from Europe was trying basses out in another shop and there to pick up a bass I was selling. I had one of my Amati Shop basses there and asked him to try it. He tried my bass and then 2 other high end Shens and said mine was much better sound wise and I agreed 100%.

On your claim Ken, the people who make Violins, Violas and Cellos are NOT the same people, team or maybe even shop in some cases that make the Basses. Even in China between shops, things get farmed out to those that specialize. Comparing Violins to Basses by label is not the whole picture. Compare the basses to basses!

[Srikanth Narayanan]

Hey Ken's , I'm enjoying the info...

You've both mentioned via photos, the figurations and flames in the wood, either in the regular Amati, / the Deluxe Amati or the various Sinfonicas pictured above. Is this flame just cosmetic, or does it influence the sound in an audible way? Highly figured wood seems to be reserved for pricier versions of instruments. Is this because compared to plainer looking wood, figured wood transfers vibrations+sound better, or is it just that figured wood is prettier?

About looking "Chinese"... well it does not look like these ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Bof1GlvAo0

That's Chinese.

Obviously, you two have sharp eyes for details, but in a general way, is it relevant to a player if the bass looks Chinese, Italian, German, Czech, U.S.A. or other nationality? At some point, once the quality is there, should not makers be proud of their birth names, their nationality and their designs?

For instance, since these Amati's are so good in a real sense, at some point would it not be better for the Chinese makers to label the basses with their own names? Even allow their styles to be more recognizable? Buyers will learn the new names and adapt, right?

===

Backtracking a bit...

What questions do you advise someone to ask him/herself, in order to find out if it's time to upgrade instruments?

Between one's own 'emotional mind' and one's own 'rational mind', who leads the the search for, and evaluation of, an instrument, and who has the final say?

thanks,

[Ken Smith]

On the Flame figure vs. sound or quality, there is no science that I am aware of on the looks of wood. Flamed maple from the same tree is harder than non flamed wood as the density is generally higher in figured woods. Maybe that is considered a plus in making a Violin.

Prettier instruments usually sell for more than those not as pretty but not necessarily with the classics. Many old Italian Basses were made with Poplar, Willow, Walnut, Pearwood and local Oppio, a type or Maple native to northern Italy. Makers like Strad used imported wood for his Violins. Some other makes used local woods. Basses and Cellos would get less of the pretty woods due to cost, especially the basses.

We know now 200-300 years later or even less that looks are looks. In the wood business, the higher the figure, the more the cost regardless of the sound.

Ok, on your other questions this is more than just a short answer. maybe a class or a semester if not more.

As far as makers using their own name, I agree with this IF they are the ones selling them. In history going back 100s of years, if someone orders something for re-sale to be made, that shop put's their label in it. I would have to say that there are more instruments in the world with names other than the makers than those correctly labeled by the maker or even shop. For the most part, the majority of instruments made are NOT made by one individual maker either.

On my Amati model basses, I make no secret of the fact they were sold to me from a shop in China. I don't even know the exact maker. I was told who the master is but I never witnessed him making the basses.

[Ken McKay]

X Sun basses are good! Shen makes some nice basses also. I can tell a chinese bass because I have looked at a lot of chinese instruments and know the wood figure and varnish. took a look at Ken's Amati basses and they look excellent! Maybe comparable to the top model of the X Sun line.

Around here, the teacher usually suggests its time to upgrade as the player progresses, knowing that the parents are hard pressed to come up with the cashola.