Bows new and old..

[Amin Zarrinchang]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Around 1973 I acquired a beautiful Sartory Bass bow (French). I used that Bow until I retired from playing in 1988 and sold it a few years later. It has been hard finding a replacement since I started back playing a few years ago.

Last year I was lucky enough to acquire both a Sue Lipkins Bow and a magnificent Bultitude Bow as well. Long story short, someone bought the Bultitude from me and I was left with just the Lipkins. Then, I find another Bultitude Bow as good or better then the last. Shortly after, the Lipkins gets sold to a friend that loved it as I was in Bultitude heaven and then, I get the Lipkins I have been waiting for since 2 years ago. Now, I have one of each again. I think I have my Sartory replaced with these two Bows so I can take a deep breath.

Have a look at the current Bows I have including some other Bows I have picked up over the last few years; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/bows/

Hello everybody.

First of all, nice to meet you, I am new in the Forum..

I have a question for everybody, especially for Ken who has an incredible experience in fine new and old bows.

Do you prefer new bows or old bows?

Do you think old bows lose their skills during their life..?

Would you prefer the sweetness and the balance of an old bow or the grip and fastness of a new fine bow?

I know there wonderful old bows that are fast in response and have still so much power and great articulation, and new fine bows that have sweetness and colours in the tone, but which are your general opinions?

Then, a question for Ken who had the chance to perform on such a great French bow like an E.Sartory:
Which are your general opinions on that bow?
Do you think that sweetness in sound is not his first quality..? I mean that it helps a lot for agility and articulation and clearness, and has an important voice, but not the sweetness of bows with a different kind of curve..(like a Peccatte Style - curve..)

I am really curious about a commentary about that.. I only tried once a Sartory, and did not have the chance to own one for a long time, so I can not judge properly..
My first sensation was like driving a Ferrari... incredible for fast and hard to articulate passages (orchestral excerpts, or certain solo repertoire) .. it did it so easy..!
But is it also a sweet sounding bow? Or did you miss something in sensitivity in his last half..?
And did its age affect in some ways the use of the bow..?
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and opinions.

All the best

amin

[Ken Smith]

Not all bows are great. They make bows to make money too, then and now alike.

I have one Sartory and maybe saw one other bow by him. Mine made life easy. If I had the skill to play someting, the bow was part of my hand, period. No effort to play IF I could play the part. I don't remember the weight or length. I never weighed the grams liek I do now with every bow and measure them. back then, I just played and liked or didn't like the bow.

For the other old makers I too have little experience playing one of this or that here and there.

My Lipkins copy was not my favorite bow the first day. It was just MY bow and I have to not only get used to it BUT, the Bow it self needed to break in. As a bow ages, the stick/wood comes alive or rather wakes up like a sleeping beauty. A good bow does. Some bad ones might be your worst nightmare but that will be known in the first few strokes.

This Lipkins of mine has been commented by many as the best Lipkins they have every played and I have turned down quite a sum for it on more than one occasion.

New or old, good is good. new needs to break in and old needs to be cared for. Grips, tips and hair can be changed. The main bow components stay forever. Personally, I prefer less hair and not new hair. maybe I am just used to the old rosined aged hair or, I like using a lot of rosin. I never 'love' a newly re-haired bow. After breaking 10-20 hairs out, the bow seems better to me or perhaps easier play and better sounding in my hands.

[Thomas Erickson]

I think the question of whether bows actually get better with age is an interesting one. I tend to think they don't really get "better" so much as they just, well, change. And, the good bows stick around (so to speak) while the rest go wherever it is that all the bad music gear goes to rot and die.

It seems to me like an old bow and a new one can both be good and even very similar in performance, yet the old one will still have a different "vibe" - it will feel and sound older. Of course I haven't done any extensive blindfolded studies, but when I was "bow shopping" I did play a pretty fair number of bows, all in the "decent" and better range. Interesting to note that the bow I ultimately chose was old and clearly had seen a lot of use over the years (it belonged, at one point, to an institution of some sort); it was not as "fine" a bow as some of the newer choices I narrowed down to and perhaps didn't even have quite the technical performance - but, it had the mojo that made it, like Ken said, disappear or become part of my arm/hand.

To me, in a bow or a bass either one, that "mojo" is the most important thing. It doesn't matter how great the bow performs or how sweet the bass sounds - the best music is going to come from the one that works!

[Thomas Erickson]

Ken -

How often do you get a bow (one that you're using all the time) rehaired? Do you go by how much playing it sees, or by time?

I don't love new hair either, but after a few long sessions the improvement over the old hair is always nice IMO. But then, I'm a hypocrite - I always tell people to get their bows rehaired and then let mine slide, even though I know better. Doesn't help that I can't find somebody who does rehairs just the way I like and/or has hair I like. Did I mention I'm picky?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Thomas Erickson

Ken -

How often do you get a bow (one that you're using all the time) rehaired? Do you go by how much playing it sees, or by time?

I don't love new hair either, but after a few long sessions the improvement over the old hair is always nice IMO. But then, I'm a hypocrite - I always tell people to get their bows rehaired and then let mine slide, even though I know better. Doesn't help that I can't find somebody who does rehairs just the way I like and/or has hair I like. Did I mention I'm picky?

I totally missed this post/question. For me, I usually get a bow re-haired when it no longer works. Probably longer than some would wait but if I am using it, I just don't like letting it go sometimes.