#21
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I think on a dark sounding bass there is nothing louder or more defined-sounding. But you better have great bow technique, a terrific bow, and a gob of sticky rosin.
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#22
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I used them decades ago on my old Italian but I don't know if they will work on the Hart. I did not like Evah weichs, Velvets or the new Flex Dlx on the Hart of the ones I remember I tried and took off almost as fast or faster than they went on. On my Lamy, I have 3 Evah weichs and a Spiro E. The E is easier to bow than the Evahs and darker sounding as well as more focused and powerful. Maybe? |
#23
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Sorry Arnold, I really respect your great experience but, I have bowed spiro reds and they didn't seem particularly hard to bow. Mind you, I must be honest and say that I have never had a set on my own bass. Maybe it is time to try them?
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#24
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I get it. When I was a classical bass student I also played jazz, lounge and wedding gigs, so I had reds on my bass. (Back then there were really only 2 or 3 metal string choices.) My arco teacher was constantly on my case to get those "chainsaws" off my bass. But I developed decent enough bow technique to pull a reasonable sound. However, compared to modern damped arco strings like BelCanto or Kaplan or Flexicor, Spiros can be very tricky for someone who did not start out with them.
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#25
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I use spirocore lower strings on my Upton, And I enjoy them (classical playing). at first, they were very bright, but they have now calmed down a bit. I have a personal preference for using brighter strings on the bottom to help with low range definition, so they suit me just fine, and in terms of bowing i have no difficulty, and i don't consider myself to have the most fantastic of bow arms.
just my $0.02 alex |
#26
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My only concern here is how they will sound on my bass, the Hart. I have no problem bowing them but, the sound they have is what they have. That, I can't change. I do however want to find out if or how many people currently use then for Orchestra regardless of where they are in the world. For Pizz, I have been able to play Jazz on just about any of my basses with all sorts of Bowing strings. Maybe it's my set-up or my technique or what I like to hear but I am a one string per bass kinda guy. What ever is on the bass, I do everything with. |
#27
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So, I have seen them in use on the bottom and in mixed sets but rarely have I seem them recently with all Reds. |
#28
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Ken, I didn't mean to be off topic. Your main question: the difference in feel between the 3/4 and the 4/4 Spiro mittels: according to the numbers, the 3/4 3885 set, on a @106 cm mensure bass, compared to the 4/4 S42 set strung on the same bass, might feel a little bit stiffer, but hardly noticable, assuming the bass is setup with the proper overlength to the tailpiece, and the pegbox geometry being able accomodate either string.
I only posted the numbers to get a broader perspective, and to remind everyone about all the current different choices now available for Spiros. Thank you very, very much for the history of the reverse stagger tuners. I've also swapped out which string goes to which tuner to lessen the stress on the E string break over the nut and to better seat the G string to avoid "twang" as well. |
#29
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??
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Also, I am glad to see you had some positive results moving the strings to different gears. I also think it helps to open up the sound a bit when lengthening the E-string up to the A-string Post. |
#30
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Sorry Ken, I know this is a little off topic, but...
if I am tossing up between Kaplans and Spiro Reds - I need a good bowing string that also has a reasonable pizz sound (I don't want a spongy pizz). You've used Kaplans; should I, in your opinion, go for reds or Kaplans? |
#31
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humm??
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I will say this thought. Today, I put a set of Spiro Solos (red/yellow) on the Marconcini. I bought them a year ago or so and just never had the chance to use them on anything. Getting back on this 'Reds' idea, I thought it would be interesting to try the Solos on a bass that I have fresh Kaplans on to compare them in preparation for trying the Reds on the Hart. So, between the Kaplans and the Solo Spiros on the Marconcini, the Kaplans are deeper sounding but in the distance, the Spiro Yellows are louder and sweeter sounding, on THAT Bass. The G string on the solos is much thinner in diameter. The other 3 strings are close or nearly identical in size. The tension and type of sound is totally different. |
#32
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That chart is cool for sure. I love the Deutsche ad-man's copy:
"Less inertia, longer period of musical vibration." Your average bassist would say, "Fast voice, unparalleled sustain." "Equally effective when playing arco or pizzicato." As opposed to what? There are a paucity of other choices beyond "arco or pizzicato" and I shudder to think of Ken's Hart suffering from most of them! In any event, meandering back toward the topic at hand: Ken, I'm sure you won't forget that if you're headed toward orchestral work on Spiros there's no particular reason to install a new set! |
#33
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So, if I put on a brand new set, I have time to break them in. As far as bright strings so, I tried a set of Solo Orig. Flatchromes on my Storioni one night. Bright but good sounding. Also, yesterday as a pre-test I put some 'brand new' Solo Spiros (red/yellow) on the Marconcini school bass and they are nice as well. Bright they are but I didn't run away from them. |
#34
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Reds on the Hart...
Ok, having the Solo set on one bass I think is enough for me to test over the Summer. Being that I had them in stock already, it was easy to try them on something without having to order them in. I got them last year just before the prices were about to go up so not I will see what they do.
Tonight I put a set of Jargar Dolce/green silked strings that I got last year as well but haven't had the need to try them. I took off the Kaplans from the Hart and replaced them one string at a time. Each string going on felt like the bass was moving closer to the sound I like most. These are lighter in gauge than the medium/blue Jargar set I tried last year but do not feel or sound thin like other solo sets do. I will have the Summer to play on them and decide if they stay on for the season starting in the fall. So, instead of going from the new Kaplans to Red's on the Hart, I went to Jargar Dolce's. That's about as far a tonal difference between two strings that are on the market. Spiros and Jargars, complete opposites. I think the Hart is destined to be a smooth, deep, dark sounding bass rather than what it might turn into with Red's. For now, I will never know until that day comes when I have time to try them and I don't have any sets 'already purchased to try out'. I am not closing the door or burning any bridges here (I love the Bridge on the Hart, lol), I am just staying on my normal path of tone for that bass. |
#35
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The Kaplans are off! (sorry, used a Smilie - out of character)
Well, here's my dilema. I have EP weichs on and have a recording to do in about four weeks. The EPs will do the job nicely, but I also want to get a string that will bow faster. Ken, I was hoping that you'd be really happy with the Kaplans and, perhaps, suggest that they were also a reasonable pizz string. I don't have time to count on breaking in Reds - it takes about two weeks here to get strings from Lemur music and, because of the internet string thing, most music shops aren't carrying DB strings. There is a guy in Auckland but he charges an arm and a ley; anyway, it's almost as quick to get strings from the US of A. So, how did you feel about the Kaplans overall? Do they handle fast bowing - say as in Monti's Czardas; and what is their pizz feel like? I wait in anticipation. |
#36
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Fast bowing..
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I think I gave them a real good workout and test. Find a copy of the 9th and see how fast some of the parts are. I think the Kaplans did just fine. If not, they would have come off the bass as soon as they went on. |
#37
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#38
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Spiros & belcantos
I remember ken raising an eyebrow to me saying I enjoyed spirocore reds for arco playing a while back haha. I've been using a set of belcantos per recommendation from ken (which I love) for the past six months. I think kens description of the spiros being edgier & belcantos being smoother is spot on. Sometimes I feel like these 2 sets would be suited for different composers work rather than a jack of all trades set. I miss my spiros sometimes (which I put on a Romanian flatback I rebuilt & sold to a jazz player) for getting a nice beefy forte on Beethoven pieces. I use black hair & med oak rosin always on both sets by the way.
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#39
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Speaking with my luthier today, who works on many of the basses in the Chicago Symphony, I was told that the strings of choice for many years in the orchestra were EA Spiro Red and DG Flexocores. This is what Joe Guastafeste preferred and the other bassists followed suit.
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#40
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