Mystery Cello 1670?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Mike Weems

I did not think it was that early but the construction is so odd I could not place it. Thanks again for the info. At least that's a starting point for me. Note about the construction originally the ribs fit into channel cut into the back. Also there is a repair label J Metheny 1921. I agree that might be a price or a twisted joke.

Mike, that IS the construction of the early Yankee school. That is guitar style construction and was partially done in Europe as well in the early days. The Scroll and Pegbox is definitely Yankee and I attribute it to Prescott or one of his workers of followers.

[Mike Weems]

Just looked over your Prescott bass Restore pics. The peg box walls on this cello originally hand inlayed tuner plates not friction pegs. The figured maple sides were fit later. thanks again as usual your help is invaluable.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Mike Weems

Just looked over your Prescott bass Restore pics. The peg box walls on this cello originally hand inlayed tuner plates not friction pegs. The figured maple sides were fit later. thanks again as usual your help is invaluable.

Yes, Prescott Cellos were 4-strings and they were mostly but a few not Cellos but Church basses with gears on plates. The double basses were made with 3 strings and most of them have since been converted to 4-strings. A few basses have the old plates with 4-strings and might have been converted in Prescott's time as I don't know of any basses he made in 4-strings originally but they could have been made in 4s as well.

[Ken Smith]

http://www.cello.org/heaven/cowling/prescott.jpg

From; http://www.cello.org/heaven/cowling/makecel.htm

Cello Size Comparison .Length of Body Upper Bouts Lower Bouts

Pietro Guarneri.............30 inches 13 3/8 inches 17 1/2 inches

Santo Seraphin............ 28 3/4 inches 13 13/16 inches 16 7/8 inches

Abraham Prescott........ 32 inches 14 1/2 inches 18 5/8 inches

[Mike Weems]

This cello measures
body length 29 1/4
upper bout width 13 1/4
lower bout 16 3/8

so I guess it's a true cello? going over link cello page thanks again.

[Mike Weems]

I am going to go ahead and restore this cello. the question that I have is this. The dimensions are odd on this instrument so is it ok to alter some, such as f-stop and neck length or do I stay with original intent. This would also apply to any future basses that I may have to repair. I don't have a problem making structural changes.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Mike Weems

I am going to go ahead and restore this cello. the question that I have is this. The dimensions are odd on this instrument so is it ok to alter some, such as f-stop and neck length or do I stay with original intent. This would also apply to any future basses that I may have to repair. I don't have a problem making structural changes.

I don't know what this needs. Altering an instrument is irreversible. Also, I have no idea what your skills are. You are talking major surgery on an old Cello/Church Bass. This is most likely a Prescott or something close. In the Cello world, these Yankee instruments do not have a high value. The basses on the other hand do but they are usually big and big is not 'in' at the moment. I have owned one Prescott (sold), one Batchelder (sold) and a beautiful JB Allen bass. For the sound that each of these produce, I feel that they sell more in the German to English price ranges rather then the Italian.

So, be prepared to spend time and money that you will not receive back as this can turn into a negative cost/value project.

Every instrument is different. It's value in the end is usually my guide to what work will be affordable for recouping my investment. Sometimes however, the love for an instrument gets the best of you. I am currently having (amongst other basses) an old Tirol blockless bass restored and repaired as well as altered. The string length will be slightly shortened with a block 'area' cut and its first block installed as it never had one. Many Tirol, German and Bohemian instruments were made without neck blocks and more-so in the style of guitar construction. Before the German countries made violins, they were content making just Lutes and Guitars. The trailed the Italians by about 100 years getting into the Violin. Some believe that Stainer was the first and introduced the violin to the Germans but, I don't think that is 100% accurate. None the less, these Yankee self taught makers learned from a combination of German imports coming in and cabinet making in skills. Combiner together, you have the Yankee basses which include the large Cello-like Church basses and a few smaller ones that were closer to the size of the Cello. If it had tuning gears/plates with machines like double basses and not pegs like a violin, then your instrument was most likely made and intended to be a Church Bass regardless of its size. Maybe!.. I have seen a few cheap german violins with tiny guitar sized gears as well but those I believe were made for students as opposed to professionals.

As far as building styles go over the 4+ centuries and the pinpointing of who did what where or when, it's a total mess tyring to line these origins up. It's more like a 400 year free for all. Do what you like and they will sort it out in the future.. lol