" Name That Bass " aka "This OLD Bass"

[Ken Smith]

My Bass would measure about 118-119cm or 121 or so over the buttton. The Top is over 119cm to the tip so the Back is close to that. I have heard of Violones in England as far back as the 17th Century but not much before that. I don't know what this was originally other that just 'BIG'.

On the Top age, we know it's from very old growth but being as wide as it is and relatively few cracks and no sinkage, it was something that was either well aged and/or something that came from an old Building and was cut way way before the bass was made. Luthier Peter Eibert told me the Top was so strong because or the winter growth rings combined with the species, age and grade of the Spruce combined. The 'patina' of the Top shows signs of a long life but part of it sheltered in storage. The Varnish is fantastic. Original golden Varnish under the later added red which almost looks original except for in a few spots. This Varnish has help to protect the instruments wood thus far.

I have owned many Basses in my life and have seen tons more. Nothing like this has ever crossed my path.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

French, early 19th century.

[Matthew Tucker]

I agree it looks french to me

OK the ffs don't match ... but the outline is close

7/8 french 1800

[Ken Smith]

While it does have some French flavoring it also has a lot of English on the interior not to mention the wood itself being English Sycamore on the Back and Ribs. Biase thinks it could be a French 'influenced' maker or even a Frenchman itself working in London.

Arnold, for education purposes mainly, please tell us how you will inspect this Bass inside and out to take another guess at its origin once the restoration is complete. This would be your first time seeing this Bass in person unless you have the chance to see it at Biase's shop before he has it all together.

What are the points you look at both directly and indirectly as well as overall?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

I agree it looks french to me

OK the ffs don't match ... but the outline is close

7/8 french 1800

Matthew, I would also look at the edges, arching, upper and lower corners as well as the FFs. I have yet to see a French Bass with FFs like on mine. I agree the upper bout is close but only slightly in outline. In fact, they both look sort of Germanic which was a style both the English and French worked on as far as the Gamba model Basses.

[Ken Smith]

I agree that the Bass looks just about as French as it does English. I was reading now that one maker (Barbe Pere') gradually tapered the upper bout to the Neck without any angle bend. I have heard this trait before about the French. I am not 100% sure though that the Bend is original. Or is it?

If this is a French instrument (Bass or Violone), then who were the makers c.1800 (+/- 25 years est.) that might have made large Gambas like this? I wish I had as many books on French makers as I do of the English. Probably very few were written and even less written in English!

So, broadening the search to include France adds more possibilities. Now it seems that instead of looking for a Frenchman or French influenced maker working in England we are also be looking for a Frenchman with some use of the half-Purfled style (English Ink Back/Purfled Top) that 18th Century London had occasionally produced.

[Ken Smith]

I searched the Web for some Barbe basses and found these two of them. here they are along with my Bass for comparison;

(Barbe1/Mystery Bass)


(Barbe2/Mystery Bass)


(The Trio)


Your thoughts please?

[Charles Federle]

This bass is a mystery, my instinct tells me French, the body shape strongly seems French to me, but the F- holes really make it unusual. I think that I would really like to see it up close, mostly for the scroll and purfling. A friend of mine just picked a bass similar to this, in that it also has characteristics of English and French bass. The dealer was saying it was a English bass made for the French market. When I play it though and looked a bit closer it just seemed like it had to be French. Seems you might have a mystery on your hands similar to mine. Here is an Xavier Jacquet, his basses are also very similar to Barbe's, I have even compared two and they were identical almost.

http://www.worldofbasses.de/Instrume...Pillement.html

They are different, but similar in some ways as well. Granted it could just be my eyes and digital pictures not agreeing well. Right now, just by what I can see of the purfling I think this bass might be just at the turn of the 19th century or earlier.

[Ken Smith]

My point for showing pics is to see the similarities as well as differences. Here are 3 Basses side by side. One is English (Corsby), one ??, and one French (Barbe). You can see that between the 'known' English and French Basses shown there are some similarities. The Mystery Bass is a bit in the middle and then some!



Now, have a look at the Mystery Bass between the Barbe (19th century) and the LeJeune (18th century) Basses;



(Sorry for the size differences. It's the best I can do pulling them from other websites with my limited web skills)..

So, how do they compare now?

[Ken Smith]

Just for fun, someone with some web skills take my Top and Back and photoshop in some Violin Corners on my Bass and post it. Then, tell me what it looks like. Imagine a police sketch artist adding a mustache, beard or glasses to a face to see what the person might look like as compared to without any of those features. Adding Violin Corners makes the Bass look completely different. The focus of my eye here at home when drawing it takes me away from the shoulders and more to the overall form. The upper bout easily converts with the points added but the softer lower bouts come out kinda pointy when changing the form. Just another something to have some fun with.

[Ken Smith]

I am having another look at this Bass as compared to mine. The Backs looks closer to each other than the Tops but it may be the FFs that are throwing me off. What do you guys think?