" Name That Bass " aka "This OLD Bass"

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Have a look for yourself and let me know what you think.

Well ... I think they both look like nice basses, but each one is only about 6" tall, making it a bit hard to see any other similarity.

But the plywood in the background looks almost identical, even though the colour is slightly different

[Ken Smith]

The 3-string Tailpiece (black stained Maple) shown was with the Bass when I acquired it. Although it is at least 150 years old I don't know if it is original to the Bass. The wear on the center 3-string hole shows that it was used as a 3-string for at least as long it was a 4-string. By the repairs and Gears I found on the Bass I would say it was a 4-string for well over 100 years. The new TP in Cocobolo made for this Bass by MPM may be put aside for use on another Bass in the future. I have 5 other classic Basses that have non-Ebony Tailpieces (stained black) and they each sound wonderful. I think this old 3-string TP will be more fitting than the new Compensating Pecanic TP. The 'Mojo' is something you just can't buy! The weight is another factor. The old 3-string weighs about 7.4oz (210gr) and the Cocobolo TP weighs 11.4oz (322gr). The lighter stained Maple actually sounds much deeper than the Cocobolo TP and has a slower decay to the tap tone (longer sustain) and the Cocobolo does not ring as much as the 3-stringer.

If you have an opinion either way, please let us know.

[Eric Hochberg]

In with the old, out with the new. From your description, the old sounds better, too. It's also more in character with the instrument visually, which I prefer.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

In with the old, out with the new. From your description, the old sounds better, too. It's also more in character with the instrument visually, which I prefer.

Well, if this helps at all, here's a body and TP shot side by side to compare (not to scale).

[David Powell]

You know, I really like the Pecanic TP and I am in general a big fan of these. However, I lean a bit toward the older one for this bass. For one thing, you will have a nice ebony FB and it looks good when the two match color wise. Secondly, the Pecanic might stand out too much as being new. The old TP has a lot of character and that goes with the bass better. I wouldn't say old is always better, but here, I'm thinking maybe so.

I also see a really strong similarity in the varnish of the MB and the Hill bass.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by David Powell

I also see a really strong similarity in the varnish of the MB and the Hill bass.

Can you explain to me what you see as similar, except that it's a shade of orange and worn in spots? I'm not being facetious; I just can't understand how anyone can see a strong similarity - inferring I suppose that it could be in fact the same varnish - from two small photos taken in different light?? Educate me.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Can you explain to me what you see as similar, except that it's a shade of orange and worn in spots? I'm not being facetious; I just can't understand how anyone can see a strong similarity - inferring I suppose that it could be in fact the same varnish - from two small photos taken in different light?? Educate me.

Actually, both Basses were 'shot' in the same room. One on the floor and one against the door. The carpet is almost the same shade so the lighting was similar in each pic. Matt, it's also not just the color. It's the layering with the Gold under the Red giving that orange-red glow. Same basic idea in both Varnishes. The Top of the Hill has had many more repairs then the Back and Ribs. The 'over varnish' has darkened the original color quite a bit. Also, being a smaller Bass by comparison, it has been used quite a bit rather then being stored away due to its cumbersome size like the MB.

Also of note are the C-bouts. While one is Violin and one Gamba, they both have similar curves (long and slightly shallow), especially in lower section. The extra curve needed for the Violin corners should be overlooked and imagined as a Gamba.

Age wise, if the Hill which is confirmed is from the 1780s, then how old does the Mystery Bass look in comparison. The Back and sides on the MB are of a softer variety of Maple than used on the Hill. Perhaps it was imported wood.

The FFs though are completely different in thought. The Hill being of the Amati pattern and the MB more Strad like. See below and compare for yourself;

[David Powell]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Can you explain to me what you see as similar, except that it's a shade of orange and worn in spots? I'm not being facetious; I just can't understand how anyone can see a strong similarity - inferring I suppose that it could be in fact the same varnish - from two small photos taken in different light?? Educate me.

Varnishes and finished wood are notorious for being difficult to photograph accurately, however, the same varnish will always photograph the same way under the same light, in my experience (given the same film or in these days, the same digital camera). I have photographed quite a bit of finished wood professionally, so I have years of first hand experience. One of my clients was Signature Interior Woodworks. They were often tasked with matching a new finish to an old one. This was difficult and getting the two to look the same in a photograph was practically impossible even if the two looked similar to the eye. Vary the light source and it might get better or worse.

What is fairly determinative in this case is that many finishes that appear similar to our eye will not appear similar at all when photographed. Cameras just don't see things the same way our eyes do. The dye peak sensitivities of film or digital cameras are not at the same frequencies as those of our eyes. This means that if two things look the same to our eyes and look the same to a camera or to film, it is even more likely that the substance is the same chemical formulation. Chromatography is a process by which color absorption or reflection is used to definitively identify substances. This is an abbreviated explanation, but covers the concept.

You asked for an education!

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by David Powell

You know, I really like the Pecanic TP and I am in general a big fan of these. However, I lean a bit toward the older one for this bass. For one thing, you will have a nice ebony FB and it looks good when the two match color wise. Secondly, the Pecanic might stand out too much as being new. The old TP has a lot of character and that goes with the bass better. I wouldn't say old is always better, but here, I'm thinking maybe so.

I also see a really strong similarity in the varnish of the MB and the Hill bass.

By the way, I failed to post the length measurements of each TP. The 3-stringer is 14 5/8" long. The MPM is 14 5/8" over the top of the 'G' but shortens towards the 'E' as seen in the pics. For the G, they are about the same size but the 'E' after length would be way different. Whatever that means, we will never know unless I try them both on the Bass and compare. At this point, I will just try the 3-string and ;leave it as-is unless a problem arises.