"Cornerless Italian & Spanish Basses"

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Ken McKay

Ken,

Could you please look inside there when you get a chance and tell me the bracing on the sides. I am at that point in my cornerless construction and need some help.

There is no internal Bracing that I can see but the Ribs were repaired in the past and Doubled all around in Spruce. It looks to be one continuous bend all around each Rib. I don't know if this is the best way or not.

[Ken McKay]

Ken, sorry to be a pest but does the doubling spruce run the same way as the sides or across?

I am thinking about doing this type of bracing across the sides in 4 places on each side. What do you think?http://www.contrabbassi.it/contrabba...struments.htm# go down to part under construction and look at the cross braces on the sides.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Ken McKay

Ken, sorry to be a pest but does the doubling spruce run the same way as the sides or across?

I am thinking about doing this type of bracing across the sides in 4 places on each side. What do you think?http://www.contrabbassi.it/contrabba...struments.htm# go down to part under construction and look at the cross braces on the sides.

Yes, I see that on Sergio's page but that is not a Guitar shape model. My Loveri Bass with new Ribs from Scalzilli (replaced in 1937 when he cut the Bass) has a center strip in the center Bout from Top to Back. I don't know if that's good or not. My cornerless Bass has the typical inner linings and the Spruce doubling grain runs from top to back in direction 90 degrees (opposite) to the grain of the Ribs.

Here are some photos from Jeff Bollbach's web showing Wood/Linen striping which would be better I think than complete doubling as far as controlling 'voids' in the joints.

If my Ribs need to be re-done internally, this is what I would feel better about seeing in a restoration.

[Matthew Tucker]

Stefano Sciascia told me that his old italian cornerless bass has "TELA DI SACCO" (sack-cloth) lining all around, and no visible wooden reinforcement.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Stefano told me that his old italian cornerless bass has sack-cloth lining all around, and no visible wooden reinforcement.

Sack-cloth lining all around? Oh, ok but it would be nice if we could see some pics of Stefano Sciascia's Bass you refer to. Also, if the Bass is old and has a lot of rib cracks, stripping like in Jeff's pics would make it easier to repair.

One other thing especially in new Basses is that when the Back moves thru the seasons you want either a seam to pop or the Rib to crack. If the Rib construction is too strong like with 20th century German Basses with lining in and outside the Ribs, Only the Top will crack or in the case of a Flatback, maybe the Back as well.

Just ask any repairman in the northeast how many Juzekish Basses (mainly those Germanic style shop Basses with outer linings on them) are flooding the benches this winter with cracks. Arnold, Jeff and a NJ repairman have told me how busy they are with mainly these 'stronger constructed' Basses just 'cracking up' and not from my jokes!

One of my newer Basses (20th century) was repaired this past summer and in the beginning of this winter each lower seam popped from the bottom Block up about a foot or less on each side a few weeks apart from each other. After I re-glued them nice and tight with hide glue, the Top split up a few inches from the outer lower flank from the edge thru the purfling in line with the outer edge of the F-hole but only about 6" long. I glued that right away to stop it from spreading. A week later the lower seam on the same side popped again and this time some splinters of the Back were still on the Ribs so I know it wasn't my Glue job. The wood just needed to move. Then I decided to leave it alone until after the winter and fix it in the spring after the Bass settles from the dry weather.

So, don't build the Ribs so strong that the Top or Back becomes the first victim.

[Ken McKay]

Ken and Matthew thanks. I am leaning towards no cross bracing on the ribs whatsoever, but I must consult the three guru's of bass repair.

Ken you make a good argument for very light or no bracing. How about just 4 "crackstopper" braces from front to back positioned about equally on each side?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Ken McKay

Ken and Matthew thanks. I am leaning towards no cross bracing on the ribs whatsoever, but I must consult the three guru's of bass repair.

Ken you make a good argument for very light or no bracing. How about just 4 "crackstopper" braces from front to back positioned about equally on each side?

I yield my time on this Rib question to the two gentleman from NY, Arnold and Jeff whom I would ask if I needed such advice. Ofcourse, It costs me a few lunches here and there but hey, ones gotta eat, right?

[Brian Glassman]

Check out this Italian copy:

http://netinstruments.com/picture/?p=31377.jpg

BG

[Ken McKay]

Thanks Aarnold.

That bass Brian linked to looks like a german bass with no corners. the arching looks different than any Italian I have seen. The proportions also look like a typical german gamba without corners.

[Martin Sheridan]

Ken,
What is the length of the fs on your cornerless bass?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Martin Sheridan

Ken,
What is the length of the fs on your cornerless bass?

Short but you will have to ask Arnold to measure them. He has the bass now and is fitting a plaster mold for the Top arching on the G side which was depressed over time. The Bassbar side is fine thankfully.