" Name That Bass " aka "This OLD Bass"

[Craig Regan]

How is the restoration coming along on the "Olde English" bass?


http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/MysteryBass/name_that_bass.htm

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Craig Regan

How is the restoration coming along on the "Olde English" bass?

Well, the last time I was in New York as mentioned above we were checking the Neck overstand. Because of the available time to work on it by Biase, it is running way longer than could have ever anticipated which was under 2 years. It has now been well over 4 years so all I can do is wait.

Everything looks good and the Bass is HUGE.

Next time I go into the city I will report back with another update unless, I am lucky enough to come home with it.

[Ken Smith]

I drove into NY today and visited the Bass. The Neck is glued in but the Scroll is still not attached yet. The Graft taper is done so it slides right on the Neck Graft but the wood in the Pegbox still has to be cut out inside. Currently he is fitting the Gears which are English Baker copies. Biase mentioned it was easier to work on the Scroll/Pegbox un-attached as I did when I made the outer Cheeks and plugged all of the Gear and Screw holes even before Biase got the Bass from me.

The Bass is looking beautiful now and the good news is that it will be done sooner than later.. lol

I had mailed him a drawing of the Martini Neck width at both the Nut and where it sits on the Block to give him an idea of what comfortable is to me.

Once again I must say that this is a HUGE Bass. Probably by most standards it's a 4/4 size aka Full sized Bass. Some Dealers in Europe or the UK might refer to this as a 5/4 sized Bass as I have seen one listed and it was similar to mine in most dimensions give or take. The String Length will be just under 42". The Bridge will be about 6 3/4"-7" tall. The wide 'C' bouts and wide Upper Bouts sort of demand that to make it the most playable. I have played at least one large Bass in the last few years that did NOT have the attention to playability that this Bass has had in the process and that other Bass was not only hard to play over the Shoulders, the Bow was rubbing the 'C' Bouts as well when playing the G or E-string. All the more reason to pay close attention to these details and the reason why I prefer that the Luthiers that work on my Basses PLAY the Bass.

[Craig Regan]

The body length of 47" seems much longer than a "normal" size bass. I was curious, how does the extra body length effect how the bass sounds (in general terms) and its playability.

Glad to see the Bass is moving along!

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Craig Regan

The body length of 47" seems much longer than a "normal" size bass. I was curious, how does the extra body length effect how the bass sounds (in general terms) and its playability.

Glad to see the Bass is moving along!

Craig, there is nothing 'normal' about the size or rather the overall dimensions of this Bass. It is a 'full sized' Bass. Not a 7/8 and no where near a 3/4 either. Full sized Basses were made to have I suppose a full sized sound as far as the fundamental notes go. Also, it lived most of its life as a 3-stringer.

I have had many good sounding old Basses but it is always the bigger ones with more air to move that sound the biggest and deepest when they are in good repair.

How does this one sound? I have no idea. It has never seen Steel strings from what I can tell and I would also venture to say that it has not been strung up in out lifetime. The Bridge that came with the Bass was cut for Gut Strings. The Tailpiece is a 3-stringer as well with 2 extra holes drilled to use as a 4-string. This is also the size Bass that some Europeans would convert to a 5-string as it has the mass to produce the lows. It did however have an early type C-extension fitted as I did fill some holes from it. The short Scroll/pegbox however barely fits 4-strings let alone 5.

I am hoping that this Bass fits me well and has the sound I want for Orchestra. It is huge but fairly light weight. The Back and Ribs are almost thin to medium as well as the Top. Nothing overdone here as well as the internal work. All of the Blocks are small as well as the Back bracing system and Bassbar. Internally streamlined for this 'soft shoe' giant..

Playability wise we have to remember that when this Bass was made, there was not even a written method of how to play the Bass. This was a 3-string that might have been used in Theater, Opera, Church, on the great Ships of the 19th century possibly and probably some Symphony stuff after about 1850 from the later 4 Gears that were on the Bass and the Extension which is probably early 20th century. The demand for Orchestra playing today is far different than it was then. Also, even with all that we know about the difficulty of large Basses, we still see new ones being made with big upper bouts, high shoulders and long lengths. It is so expensive to modify and make a big Bass playable for modern standards. Why then are new Basses still being made that might not be cost effective to modify for easier playability?

This Bass will play at just under 42" string length. The Block lowered, the Shoulder tips cut down about one inch to shorten the upper bout reach and the Bridge sitting just on top of the F-notches to compensate. The Neck is pitched nicely for the bridge height so the bow will clear the Bouts and the the Neckstand is out at about 40mm or so. It was planned a bit more at closer to 50mm but I suggested to Biase to bring that down a bit for Neck strength closer to 40mm and pitch the Neck in the Block back a tad more to make up for the difference to achieve the Bridge height which was about 7" before as well on the old Bridge.

For playability you have to measure your octave reach so it's not too far over the shoulders. Also, the area where your arm goes over the Shoulder should be marked and measured to the top of the Bridge foot. This is a play-factor measurement. Check on a few Basses that play better or worse in that area and take that measurement. This is as important as any to be able to reach over the shoulders and hit the note where you think they should be, 'for you'. Some Basses regardless of how great the may be might just not fit a particular player due to dimensions alone. You are trying to match up two bodies here, yours and the Basses'. What good is a great Bass if you can't play it?

[Ken Smith]

I drove into NYC today for some other unrelated Bass biz but while I was there we went over some final details.

The Scroll is now grafted to the Neck and the Neck is glued in the Block with a nice Ebony Fingerboard on it. The Neck itself is not yet shaped and nor is the Fingerboard done. These are the areas we went over as far as the width at the Nut and ends of Neck at the Block along with the desired string spacing centers at both the Nut and Bridge. These factors combined will help to create the Neck/Fingerboard Taper.

Now for a few 'cool' details. This Bass is big and WIDE. The Bass Bar is set in a bit but that is because if it wasn't we would have to make or buy a custom Bridge. A normal 3/4 Bridge is about 150-155mm wide measuring the outer most part of the Feet. Bridges for bigger Basses from 7/8 to 4/4 or so measure about 160-165mm. The Bridge that came with the Bass which is about 50 years old or so is 170mm wide. If the Bar was pushed to its furthest point of the upper F-hole Eye it would require a 190mm Bridge to match the width of the upper Eyes. We will use the existing 'old' wide Bridge with regular aluminum adjusters which I happened to have cut and tapped the feet myself about 2 years ago as a test before doing my first actual adjuster job for one of the Corsini's I had back in 2006. Turns out I did just fine the first time because Biase said my test piece was usable as-is. I didn't think the old Bridge was usable anymore but it fits just fine.

The Gears to be used are English Baker copies made some 20 years ago or so by "Fawcett", the same guy that made the English mechanical C-Extensions. Biase just happened to have a set of these lying around for a special occasion. I am more than happy that my Bass qualified and will get that set which is in the process of being fit.

The Tailpiece as mentioned awhile back will be the 3-string stained Maple TP that was modified with 2 additional holes when it was converted to a 4-string Bass.

The End Pin will just have an Ebony socket and a short Peg maybe only 3" tall that I whittled myself recently with just a rubber tip at the bottom. If need be, I will make another one with a spike for non-slip needs. I can also make other lengths if needed. Down the road after breaking in this Bass I can also change the entire system to the modern Carbon Fiber unit if necessary. The Peg I'm using was originally made for the Mougenot Bass I bought recently as a test idea. That Bass had an endpin system already so I decided to put the Peg where it's needed most.

Besides using either older or traditional components, the Bass even after its restoration still retains the Bassbar and X-Brace system from the 19th century. This Bass from what I can see has never seen a steel string. Rather than get overly busy fixing what ain't yet broke, I thought it best to give it a chance with its short & low inset 3-string Bassbar and x-brace while it breaks in and makes its first musical Bass sound since most reading this post were born.. lol

The x-brace is the 3rd bar system this Bass has had. Scars from the original 'Bars and secondary lower Bar is still visible. I think some of this work was previously done for experimental purposes as the early damage to the Back is at a minimum.

All 4 corner blocks are still original. The Bottom Block might be as well. The Neck Block looks to be its first 'real' Block because it appears that this Bass was most probably born 'Blockless'! The 'first Block' was cut at the top for the deeper Neck-set and the Block beefed up lower down to add support. This same technique was done on my Hart Bass which Block was original but needed some 'beef' added as well.

Today I measured on the blank unfinished Fingerboard where the octave 'G' is with a bit of Rosin. The Bass will be 42" mensur so I marked it at 21", half way. Then I bowed the Bass at the edge of the Fingerboard while playing imaginary scales, arpeggios, excerpts and some doodlin' as well. The G was just about where I want it. The Neck-stand which I also discussed awhile ago is 'out there' at 48mm. Most of my Basses average from 32-36mm so this one is almost 1/2" further out. With these bigger, broader and wider shoulders, any help that can be done with the Neck-set is really needed. The Bass feels easy to play and get around but mind you, I was only playing on air!

Being that I have never played or even heard this Bass, we are doing things on the 'basic' in a few places as mentioned above. It would not be a surprise to me one bit if one or more things had to be re-done in the first few years including pulling off the Top again if further internal work is needed. This is partially because it is just now getting converted to a modern steel string Bass from Guts and has the internal structure partially of a Gut 3-Sting Bass. Being olde English I would venture to say it was first tuned G, D, A (high to low) which was the tuning in fourths that was used in England back then.

As of now, I hope to be playing this Bass before Christmas or shortly thereafter. If it sounds and plays like I expect it to, I will have a C-Extension made for it sooner than later..