History of the American Bass

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

I have read that Klotz' designs were the basis for Prescott, not Hornsteiner's.

Yes, I have read that too but the last time I saw a Klotz bass it was actually an old Hornsteiner to my eye. And, which Klotz? Klotz was a famous family and the founding family of the Mittenwald school. Why not name all old Mittenwald basses Klotz? I don't know which are real Klotz's, Neuners or Hornsteiners. They all look alike to me.

Hey, I would love to see a REAL Confirmed Mathius Klotz Double Bass. The last tine I saw something that looked like a M. Klotz, it had a famous Italian name.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

I'm pretty sure Prescott pre-dated the Hornsteiner shop.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

I'm pretty sure Prescott pre-dated the Hornsteiner shop.

Not really so Maestro. The Hornsteiners date from the early 18th century and the commercial firm of Neuner & Hornsteiner dates from 1750, about 70 years before any recorded Prescott bass. Perhaps here in USA we have only seen the later made basses as the old ones are stuck in the Central European Orchestras and not going anywhere. The Neuner family dates from even a century earlier, the 17th.

Remember that Thread I started called Where are They??

I started that Thread because I knew there were old Mittenwald basses by these families but rarely seen here in USA or on the internet anywhere. They were made but probably scarce in comparision and just not available for sale that we ever see.

Just because a bass is very old, large and has lower rounded corners does not make it a Klotz unless it was made by one of that family.

[Martin Sheridan]

I had read that the Busetto cornered Prescott basses were a copy of a Klotz. The Klotz family continued generation after generation. I think I remember seeing a Klotz violin from the early 20th century. Some think the first Klotz studied in Cremona with Amati.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Martin Sheridan

I had read that the Busetto cornered Prescott basses were a copy of a Klotz. The Klotz family continued generation after generation. I think I remember seeing a Klotz violin from the early 20th century. Some think the first Klotz studied in Cremona with Amati.

Yes Martin, think! It is written that he (the first Klotz maker) studied with someone (I will have to go back and find the name) in Italy that came from Fussen I believe. On the word or name 'Busetto' itself, this I find it hard to swallow. In the Elgar book he doesn't call it Busetto corners. He calls it 'lower rounded corners'. It was later I believe that some bass was named after the maker Giovanni Maria del Busetto. Busetto being a town in Italy. From reading about that maker I see no reason to believe he ever made a Double Bass much less that German looking one named after him that is either in Japan or Berlin. That bass has the form of early Mittenwald basses. The Bat wing FFs are Central European as well, not Italian. If that bass looks Italian in workmanship internally then maybe it's because the early Klotz maker Mathias trained in Italy. This is confirmed Klotz instrument here; http://www.myeasybass.com/publications/p_klotz.html

When looking at the work of del Busetto, what little has been found it seems way to early in time to be anything like that big bat winged F hole bass they named after him. Now what we have is confusion. Maybe started by the dealers as far as who made what or trained with whom including Stainer and the term 'Busetto corner'. What a mess!!

[Martin Sheridan]

I have never found any evidence of basses by Busetto either. We don't know how many studied with Amati because they are not mentioned in the census of his household if they didn't live with him, so I don't think anyone really knows where Klotz learned, but they like to make that Italian connection.
By the way, my cousin is married to an Italian, can I claim my basses as Italian? Sounds like a close enough connection to me, and I could raise my prices.
One that I find amusing is Morrelli who was a German who just used that name. Even his stuff brings more than a comparable German maker from the 30s even though everyone in the biz knows he was German. Any other time I'd remember his real name, but right now that would require me to think; it's been a long day and I want a drink before I do anymore thinking.
best,

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Martin Sheridan

I have never found any evidence of basses by Busetto either. We don't know how many studied with Amati because they are not mentioned in the census of his household if they didn't live with him, so I don't think anyone really knows where Klotz learned, but they like to make that Italian connection.
By the way, my cousin is married to an Italian, can I claim my basses as Italian? Sounds like a close enough connection to me, and I could raise my prices.
One that I find amusing is Morrelli who was a German who just used that name. Even his stuff brings more than a comparable German maker from the 30s even though everyone in the biz knows he was German. Any other time I'd remember his real name, but right now that would require me to think; it's been a long day and I want a drink before I do anymore thinking.
best,

The Morelli basses were made in a German shop or two or three (over the years), imported into USA and THEN labeled Morelli. Some were stamped in Germany during production I suspect by request of the importer. The maker or shop recorded was Karl Hermann.

On Klotz it is known to a degree that M.Klotz the eldest Mittenwald maker trained with Fussen maker Giovanni Railich that had settled in Padua Italy. Klotz is believed to have trained first in Fussen or Vils or maybe even with Stainer and then spent 6 years in Padua before returning to Mittenwald.

The Families of Klotz, Neuner, Hornsteiner and Baader came one after another sometimes working with each other, in competition of each other or independently. Mittenwald for some time was THE world center for Violin production. This is one of the tangled webs we find in this business. Who did what when or where and to who or with whom.

I bet the Germans over there today could easily put this mystery in order much easier then we can but still, many things were just not well recorded.

As far as what Bass or BassES Prescott actually copied, dig up his grave and ask him!

My main point is that it's a bit irresponsible in this business to point every thing 'Bass' from Mittenwald to the Klotz family. They were first but were not alone for long as in the early 18th century, the demand grew as did the makers, families and firms providing instruments.