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  #61  
Old 06-30-2009, 06:22 PM
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Lightbulb Isb..

I just found this on YouTube. That is the Room I was in and the guy next to the girl with the 'Butt Cradle' is playing the Lott Copy Bass and in the back you can see the Big Gamba and a quick glimpse of me sitting down.
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  #62  
Old 07-01-2009, 02:57 AM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Ken, you are a handsome man - a good catch for any woman.
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  #63  
Old 07-01-2009, 03:52 AM
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Question huh?

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Originally Posted by Richard Prowse View Post
Ken, you are a handsome man - a good catch for any woman.
You can see me sitting back there in the end(1:26) near the Big Gamba?
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  #64  
Old 07-01-2009, 04:04 AM
Charles Stark Charles Stark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
You can see me sitting back there in the end(1:26) near the Big Gamba?
Indeed, as Richard said: "quite the catch!"
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  #65  
Old 07-01-2009, 04:56 AM
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Question lol..

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Originally Posted by Calvin Marks View Post
Indeed, as Richard said: "quite the catch!"
With barely half my head showing in the background? You can't be looking at me.. lol
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  #66  
Old 07-01-2009, 05:31 AM
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Question ok..

Can you find me in this YouTube video? I can't but I can hear my Bass slightly, the Hart (yes, I do take her out on occasion). Most of it is one Bass only but due to the set-up, I am in the middle and blocked by the conductor. This is a reverse bass section set-up but I did it so I can be closer to the 'stick' and looking straight at him, not at his hip from behind 4 rows of Celli with Tymp's in my ears right behind me. We also did Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet that night the second half. There is a split bass part, a famous required excerpt and out of 5 basses of which I had us split 2 up and 3 down, the Conductor asked for only one Bass up high, ME. Bare ass naked up there. Calvin, you know the part. Scan it in so these readers can grow some whiskers..
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  #67  
Old 07-01-2009, 07:00 AM
Joel Larsson Joel Larsson is offline
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Position-wise, the best bass sound I have ever heard was when the Gothenburg Symphony lined up their million dolalr babies back at the wall, behind the woodwinds, for one of those early Bruckner pieces. The bass notes hit you like a fist in your face. They sound great when they sit at the side as well, of course, but the difference in the audience was HUGE. I guess it makes sense, acoustically, and also, in rock'n'pop recordings, the instrument you just don't pan is the the bass. But I also guess that this is drifting off-topic.
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  #68  
Old 07-01-2009, 06:25 PM
Charles Stark Charles Stark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Larsson View Post
Position-wise, the best bass sound I have ever heard was when the Gothenburg Symphony lined up their million dolalr babies back at the wall, behind the woodwinds, for one of those early Bruckner pieces. The bass notes hit you like a fist in your face. They sound great when they sit at the side as well, of course, but the difference in the audience was HUGE. I guess it makes sense, acoustically, and also, in rock'n'pop recordings, the instrument you just don't pan is the the bass. But I also guess that this is drifting off-topic.
I really like where this topic is going, perhaps we could start a new thread on trends of where different bass sections sit.
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  #69  
Old 07-01-2009, 06:35 PM
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Cool well..

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Originally Posted by Calvin Marks View Post
I really like where this topic is going, perhaps we could start a new thread on trends of where different bass sections sit.
Look at the Brun book which has been discussed and see where some once sat 100-200 years ago. It was pictures from that book that I showed to the conductor that helped me to convince him my idea was valid. There is a small back wall just behind us about 3 feet high. I prefer that to just air and the side of the hall which just lets the sound travel to who knows where rather than bouncing off the wall from the backs of at least 3 basses of the section as the last 2 basses wrap around somewhat. Next season howere the programs only require 3 or 4 basses per concert so we will have less dead air travel. Ofcourse if I play the Big Gamba it will feel more like 6 basses in the section.
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  #70  
Old 07-01-2009, 08:45 PM
Ken McKay Ken McKay is offline
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Hey just wondering about the sitting versus standing effect on bass sound. The bass I just finished sounds quite a bit fuller when the knee is not touching the back. How many orchestras encourage one or the other, all or a mix...?
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  #71  
Old 07-01-2009, 09:46 PM
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Cool encourage?

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Originally Posted by Ken McKay View Post
Hey just wondering about the sitting versus standing effect on bass sound. The bass I just finished sounds quite a bit fuller when the knee is not touching the back. How many orchestras encourage one or the other, all or a mix...?
Try telling that to the violin players or the cello players. An Iron-Bryon like machine as used in Golf Club testing made for playing the Bass might produce the best sound due to the lack or a human dampening the wood.

Ok, short of that most players sit now a days. Why? Why not? Everyone else does!

I feel the bass in my gut just as good or better when sitting and I hear it a lot better as well. For solo playing is depends on the player as many stand today but in Orchestra sections, just about every section bass player I have seen in picture and in video lately are all standing.

I don't care if my bass sounds 5% better standing. If the bass is not good enough without standing, then get a better bass. That's my advice. My feet and back come first.I use a stool. If I feel like standing, I do. If not, I sit. It's not negotiable nor open for discussion on a gig as far as I am concerned.

Now we can argue bridges (try 100 different ones on ever bass till it's 2% better.. lol), endpins, strings, bows, rosin.. Where will it stop?????????

We need to just play the bass and not nit pic the tiny details. Set the bass up and play it. After all, the music comes first, right? Lets all go practice this weekend, NO Internet.. Deal?
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  #72  
Old 07-01-2009, 10:12 PM
Charles Stark Charles Stark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
I don't care if my bass sounds 5% better standing. If the bass is not good enough without standing, then get a better bass.
I've played some really fine basses that sound very muted when your knee/leg touches the back of the bass. That being said, they sounded terrific and vibrated properly when I played standing.

From my experience (albeit rather limited), flat-back instruments are more prone to muting.



Ken, the Brun book is all tertiary information. The author took so many of the things ridiculously out of context and failed to document some of the sources properly. That being said, there is some validity in what's being presented, but his opinions of it are often taken as fact versus conjecture.
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  #73  
Old 07-01-2009, 10:41 PM
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Cool Brun and muting..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin Marks View Post
I've played some really fine basses that sound very muted when your knee/leg touches the back of the bass. That being said, they sounded terrific and vibrated properly when I played standing.

From my experience (albeit rather limited), flat-back instruments are more prone to muting.



Ken, the Brun book is all tertiary information. The author took so many of the things ridiculously out of context and failed to document some of the sources properly. That being said, there is some validity in what's being presented, but his opinions of it are often taken as fact versus conjecture.
I agree that anything touching a bass mutes it including your hands. I use a Bow quiver on all of my basses that weighs from 4-5 ounces, about 112-142 grams or so. I barely hear any difference with or without a quiver. Also, most of my Tailpieces are the older type non-ebony stained black. The quiver brings it back to the ebony weight in a way but not the same density. If slight muting is a problem then we have to live with it. A bass should have enough sound so sitting with it Flat or Roundback doesn't matter.

On the seating, in context or not, I think it shows good examples of different ideas being used and that there was not one perfect way. My reverse type way the last two concerts worked so well that I will petition to use it all the time if permitted to do so but depending on the layout. If our Scrolls are blocking the Opera Singers than maybe we will be pushed off to the side. So far, it has worked just fine. Variety is the spice..
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  #74  
Old 07-03-2009, 04:23 PM
Ken McKay Ken McKay is offline
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
Try telling that to the violin players or the cello players. An Iron-Bryon like machine as used in Golf Club testing made for playing the Bass might produce the best sound due to the lack or a human dampening the wood.

Ok, short of that most players sit now a days. Why? Why not? Everyone else does!

I feel the bass in my gut just as good or better when sitting and I hear it a lot better as well. For solo playing is depends on the player as many stand today but in Orchestra sections, just about every section bass player I have seen in picture and in video lately are all standing.

I don't care if my bass sounds 5% better standing. If the bass is not good enough without standing, then get a better bass. That's my advice. My feet and back come first.I use a stool. If I feel like standing, I do. If not, I sit. It's not negotiable nor open for discussion on a gig as far as I am concerned.

Now we can argue bridges (try 100 different ones on ever bass till it's 2% better.. lol), endpins, strings, bows, rosin.. Where will it stop?????????

We need to just play the bass and not nit pic the tiny details. Set the bass up and play it. After all, the music comes first, right? Lets all go practice this weekend, NO Internet.. Deal?
Hah hah hah you got me chuckling with this post Ken. Imagine being a gamba violist in the mid 16th C. Holding that thing between your knees for hours. Some body parts might go to sleep permanently.

When does the weekend start... did I violate the rule? If so, I will say an act of contrition.

Happy 4th of July...I always like to listen to some Mozzart on the 4th, don't know why, I guess Amadeus and the Declaration of Independence were contemporaries.
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  #75  
Old 07-03-2009, 04:53 PM
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Cool lol..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken McKay View Post
Hah hah hah you got me chuckling with this post Ken. Imagine being a gamba violist in the mid 16th C. Holding that thing between your knees for hours. Some body parts might go to sleep permanently.

When does the weekend start... did I violate the rule? If so, I will say an act of contrition.

Happy 4th of July...I always like to listen to some Mozzart on the 4th, don't know why, I guess Amadeus and the Declaration of Independence were contemporaries.
We are closed today but I am at work taking calls and doing emails. Also, I am practicing as well. Playing my BIG GAMBA, learning how to handle it as well as what height works for me, bow reach, left hand reach etc. It is so big all over that I feel like I have to re-learn how to hold the Bass. I have the end pin all the way in now. Last week at a concert I was standing and I kept pulling out the endpin further to reach the bow area between the end of FB and the bridge. Now I have it all in sitting on a stool and it works just fine.

What music am I using to find the comfort zone with this monster? The original Simandl book I that I bought around 1966. Starting on page 8.

I was deep into page 10 #6 when the phone rang. UPS was at the door which was locked. I let him in and he delivered a carton of my new P.A.P.A Pre Amp stomp boxes from the Lab. I tried it today on the Big Gamba earlier with an old foam wrapped AKG mic in the bridge and it sounded great. So natural and easy to EQ as well. My son ran thru the features with a Smith bass and liked it as well.

On the Simandl, after I do it as written, I try it without open strings to work the left hand on this biggie. Taking the thought of new or hard music out of the equasion but reading something strictly written (with variation as well) helps to develop a hand position as well as a bow position on this newly restored monster of mine.

Ok, back to finishing up F and then on to Bb. hey, you can also play these an octave up in TP and use the T-1-2-3 fingerings. Fun..

Hey, we re-did the home page last night and cleaned it up a bit. You like?

We added the P.A.P.A. notice just up top and moved the Forum link a bit further down the page with the banner logo button. The rest of the other stuff was either deleted or moved to the What's New section if it's old news.

So, what do you think? A complete P.A.P.A. page is in the works as well. It will link from the 'button' on the Home page.
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  #76  
Old 07-03-2009, 05:22 PM
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Tim Bishop Tim Bishop is offline
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
Hey, we re-did the home page last night and cleaned it up a bit. You like?

We added the P.A.P.A. notice just up top and moved the Forum link a bit further down the page with the banner logo button. The rest of the other stuff was either deleted or moved to the What's New section if it's old news.

So, what do you think? A complete P.A.P.A. page is in the works as well. It will link from the 'button' on the Home page.
I like. It looks great, Ken.
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