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Old 09-11-2009, 07:31 PM
Greg Lorisco Greg Lorisco is offline
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Default Intonation Test

I have been told by some bass makers that you can’t get perfect intonation where all the frets are in tune, but I’m not sure that is true.

So here is the test:

Using a meter, and with fresh strings, set your intonation (12 fret harmonic matching the 12 fret fretted note). Once your intonation is set, with a meter, check the E on the B string, A on the E string, D on the A string, etc…. across the neck.

Are these notes exactly in tune or flat / sharp?
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:45 PM
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Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
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Lightbulb NOT possible..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Lorisco View Post
I have been told by some bass makers that you can’t get perfect intonation where all the frets are in tune, but I’m not sure that is true.

So here is the test:

Using a meter, and with fresh strings, set your intonation (12 fret harmonic matching the 12 fret fretted note). Once your intonation is set, with a meter, check the E on the B string, A on the E string, D on the A string, etc…. across the neck.

Are these notes exactly in tune or flat / sharp?
Pressed noted are already sharpened.. Harmonics will be in tune only with harmonics..
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Old 09-12-2009, 12:06 PM
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Tim Bishop Tim Bishop is offline
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Lightbulb Sorry, not the end of "test"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Lorisco View Post
I have been told by some bass makers that you can’t get perfect intonation where all the frets are in tune, but I’m not sure that is true.

So here is the test:

Using a meter, and with fresh strings, set your intonation (12 fret harmonic matching the 12 fret fretted note). Once your intonation is set, with a meter, check the E on the B string, A on the E string, D on the A string, etc…. across the neck.

Are these notes exactly in tune or flat / sharp?
Hitting the harmonics and the fretted note is just one part of tuning up and down the neck. The fretted note is subject to, not only the amount of pressure applied, but to the actual set-up of the instrument as well. This can and most likely WILL vary among players having an impact (negatively or positively) to the overall tuning up and down the neck.

Just one more important piece of information left out here. If you are fortunate enough to have a bridge that allows variable adjustments, you must also consider the saddle adjustment (i.e. forward or backward) to shorten or lengthen the strings length from the nut. This will help you 'dial-in' the fretted note with the same harmonic.

Then, if you are fortunate enough to play a well made bass, while you may not get your neck tuned perfectly up and down the fretboard, you may just find you can get pretty damn close.
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Old 09-12-2009, 04:48 PM
Greg Lorisco Greg Lorisco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
Pressed noted are already sharpened.. Harmonics will be in tune only with harmonics..
True, yet on my current bass the fretted note (E on B, etc) (after intonation is set) is flat.
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Old 09-12-2009, 04:54 PM
Greg Lorisco Greg Lorisco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Bishop View Post
Hitting the harmonics and the fretted note is just one part of tuning up and down the neck. The fretted note is subject to, not only the amount of pressure applied, but to the actual set-up of the instrument as well. This can and most likely WILL vary among players having an impact (negatively or positively) to the overall tuning up and down the neck.

Just one more important piece of information left out here. If you are fortunate enough to have a bridge that allows variable adjustments, you must also consider the saddle adjustment (i.e. forward or backward) to shorten or lengthen the strings length from the nut. This will help you 'dial-in' the fretted note with the same harmonic.

Then, if you are fortunate enough to play a well made bass, while you may not get your neck tuned perfectly up and down the fretboard, you may just find you can get pretty damn close.

The bridge set-up (string length and height) was implied in my post. Sorry I didn’t spell it out. Also implied is that the action is set low enough so there is not a big string stretch when fretting.

What I find is that the E on B, A on E, etc are flat, not sharp. So that would not be string stretch.

Please try this and tell me how your bass rates (truthfully). I would really like to know if me bass is just poor or if they are all like that.
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Old 09-12-2009, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Lorisco View Post
The bridge set-up (string length and height) was implied in my post. Sorry I didn’t spell it out. Also implied is that the action is set low enough so there is not a big string stretch when fretting.

What I find is that the E on B, A on E, etc are flat, not sharp. So that would not be string stretch.

Please try this and tell me how your bass rates (truthfully). I would really like to know if me bass is just poor or if they are all like that.
All of my basses set-up as I set them up provide damn near perfect intonation up and down the neck.

If you are doing all the right things, then it sounds like you have other issues.
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Old 09-12-2009, 07:08 PM
Dave Martin Dave Martin is offline
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The issue here is in the word 'perfectly'; with well tempered or just tempered instruments some intervals can be 'perfectly' in tune, though others aren't. when even tempered scales appeared (to my knowledge, with the advent of synthesizers), some sort of common ground was reached - with even tempering (that is, the same distance octaves divided in to 12 equal steps), notes can measure in tune yet not sound in tune. Once you apply even tempering to a fretted instrument, more variables appear: At best, a fretted instrument can be pretty close. Pressure has already been mentioned, and the condition of the string can also be a variable. There are LOTS of things to think about here...

Anyone besides me remember the fanned fret Dingwall basses? An aquaintance swears that those are the most in-tune basses he's ever played (and he's played on lots of records). I'd suggest that you intonate your bass as best you can and don't worry overmuch about it. With a digital tuner, I can see why it would be very difficult to get the harmonics on the 12th and 7th frets to perfectly match their fretted counterparts; I've always split the difference - if the 12th is a hair sharp and the 7th is a hair flat, I call it a draw and move on...
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Old 09-12-2009, 08:51 PM
Greg Lorisco Greg Lorisco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Martin View Post
The issue here is in the word 'perfectly'; with well tempered or just tempered instruments some intervals can be 'perfectly' in tune, though others aren't. when even tempered scales appeared (to my knowledge, with the advent of synthesizers), some sort of common ground was reached - with even tempering (that is, the same distance octaves divided in to 12 equal steps), notes can measure in tune yet not sound in tune. Once you apply even tempering to a fretted instrument, more variables appear: At best, a fretted instrument can be pretty close. Pressure has already been mentioned, and the condition of the string can also be a variable. There are LOTS of things to think about here...

Anyone besides me remember the fanned fret Dingwall basses? An aquaintance swears that those are the most in-tune basses he's ever played (and he's played on lots of records). I'd suggest that you intonate your bass as best you can and don't worry overmuch about it. With a digital tuner, I can see why it would be very difficult to get the harmonics on the 12th and 7th frets to perfectly match their fretted counterparts; I've always split the difference - if the 12th is a hair sharp and the 7th is a hair flat, I call it a draw and move on...

Good info. Thanks
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