What is my bass

[David Blane]

Hi can you tell me anything about my bass, when I bought it I was told it was about a hundred years old and was French, or possibly German

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by David Blane

Hi can you tell me anything about my bass, when I bought it I was told it was about a hundred years old and was French, or possibly German

I have seen these gears on modern Hungarian fakes. This bass looks brand new with no age or life experience shown. I think it is new Hungarian. Where was it purchased?

Same gears as on this Bass?

[David Blane]

Hi Ken

The bass was bought from the violin shop in Glasgow a couple of years ago. The dealer said it had probably been refinished. The bass has solid top and back and probably sides. There is a significant amount of shrinkage that has caused the sides (at the bottom of the bass) to be level with the edge of the back. I dont have a decent photo at the moment but you can just make it out on the one that I have attached. Would this happen if the bass was modern?

Cheers

Dave

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by David Blane

Hi Ken

The bass was bought from the violin shop in Glasgow a couple of years ago. The dealer said it had probably been refinished. The bass has solid top and back and probably sides. There is a significant amount of shrinkage that has caused the sides (at the bottom of the bass) to be level with the edge of the back. I dont have a decent photo at the moment but you can just make it out on the one that I have attached. Would this happen if the bass was modern?

Cheers

Dave

It could be in the antiquing, they do this as well. They can 'cook' the wood to make it look like that. In real, a bass would split a few times on the ribs or top when it shrinks. This was pre-shrunk like they make Jeans.

What are the Ribs measurements on the bottom block, lower corner, upper corner and middle upper bout. Measure ONLY the Rib wood, not the top or back.

[David Blane]

Hi Ken
The shrinkage does cause the back to separate from the ribs and I have to glue it down every so often. I will have to get it fixed eventualiy
The Rib Depth (if I am measuring in the right places) bottom block 8" lower corner 8 1/4" upper corner 7 7/8" upper bout where neck joins body

Cheers

Dave

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by David Blane

Hi Ken
The shrinkage does cause the back to separate from the ribs and I have to glue it down every so often. I will have to get it fixed eventualiy
The Rib Depth (if I am measuring in the right places) bottom block 8" lower corner 8 1/4" upper corner 7 7/8" upper bout where neck joins body

Cheers

Dave

If you mean seasonal movement then I don't call this shrinkage. Shrinkage is something that is permanent like the plates at the lower bouts no longer overhanging the ribs so you have to shorten the ribs at the block. THAT is what I call shrinkage. Still, the bass looks new and well antiqued. Not French but possibly Hungarian. That treatment in the upper back is found on newer basses from China, Romania and Hungary.

Something like this but without the purfling frills.

[Ken McKay]

Nice looking handmade instrument!

My guess is that it is less than 10 years old. That is from the photos only. If I could smell it I would possible change my mind. Also if I could have a look inside I could tell more from the oxidation. The outside looks newly finished and could have been stripped and sanded, and if the inside looks well oxidized to a golden brown, then this would support that it has been refinished. Tuners look modern to me, like you can buy them from International Violin.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Ken McKay

Nice looking handmade instrument!

My guess is that it is less than 10 years old. That is from the photos only. If I could smell it I would possible change my mind. Also if I could have a look inside I could tell more from the oxidation. The outside looks newly finished and could have been stripped and sanded, and if the inside looks well oxidized to a golden brown, then this would support that it has been refinished. Tuners look modern to me, like you can buy them from International Violin.

Ken, many of these antiqued basses are coated internally and treated to look old and oxidized. Only scraping down a millimeter or so will tell. If on the Top it looks 'white' under the scraping then you can see and smell the fresh wood under the antiqued 'scented' treated wood.

[David Blane]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

If you mean seasonal movement then I don't call this shrinkage. Shrinkage is something that is permanent like the plates at the lower bouts no longer overhanging the ribs so you have to shorten the ribs at the block. THAT is what I call shrinkage. Still, the bass looks new and well antiqued. Not French but possibly Hungarian. That treatment in the upper back is found on newer basses from China, Romania and Hungary.

Something like this but without the purfling frills.

The back no longer over hangs the ribs at the bottom of the bass, and I will have to shorten the ribs that is what I have been told by a luthier, but cant afford it at the moment

[David Blane]

Originally Posted by Ken McKay

Nice looking handmade instrument!

My guess is that it is less than 10 years old. That is from the photos only. If I could smell it I would possible change my mind. Also if I could have a look inside I could tell more from the oxidation. The outside looks newly finished and could have been stripped and sanded, and if the inside looks well oxidized to a golden brown, then this would support that it has been refinished. Tuners look modern to me, like you can buy them from International Violin.

When I bought the bass the dealer told me that the bass had been refinished recently. This shop that I bought the bass from is a reputable shop and has been dealing in Glasgow for a lot of years, and I think that they would have enough experience to spot a fake bass, and Idon’t believe they would try and pass me of a modern fake bass for an old bass

[Adrian Juras]

While I don't have the amount of experience Ken does, I would also guess that is a faked Hungarian bass. I have owned 2. One I bought as a turn of the century german, the other I bought knowing it was a Hungarian even though it was sold as something different. Both were very well made basses with a great tone. If it sounds good, and plays great I wouldn't worry about it. However its always a good idea to get as many opinions on an instrument before you buy it as you can.

[David Blane]

Originally Posted by Adrian Juras

While I don't have the amount of experience Ken does, I would also guess that is a faked Hungarian bass. I have owned 2. One I bought as a turn of the century german, the other I bought knowing it was a Hungarian even though it was sold as something different. Both were very well made basses with a great tone. If it sounds good, and plays great I wouldn't worry about it. However its always a good idea to get as many opinions on an instrument before you buy it as you can.

Hi Adrian

I agree with you, it doesn't matter if the bass is a fake. She sounds and feels superb and was the best sounding bass in the shop. If it is a fake can anyone tell me what type of bass it is a copy of

[Eric Hochberg]

I'm not sure that the description, "fake", applies to your bass. It's a very nice looking bass, new or not, and if it was made/antiqued/refinished in Hungary and sounds good, who cares (unless you paid French prices). It's only a fake if it purports to be something it's not. It looks newer to me, too. If you look at some old, well used basses, you'll get the idea. Maybe the dealer knew more than he was telling (making him the fake), maybe he didn't. If you paid too much for a new Hungarian bass (if it is one) of this quality, and with structural problems to boot, then I can see where you have a problem with the dealer, caveat emptor.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by David Blane

The back no longer over hangs the ribs at the bottom of the bass, and I will have to shorten the ribs that is what I have been told by a luthier, but cant afford it at the moment

Did you ever know this bass when the back DID overhang the Ribs at the bottom?

I bought one bass like this and that was my question too until we took off the Top and saw this is one of the methods in making someone believe falsely that the bass is old. My bass was MADE NEW on purpose with the Back appearing to have shrunk around the Rib overhang. The Ribs were cut and shortened at the Block and all was fixed. My newish Car that I drove the Bass to the shop in was no younger than that bass was.

The Hungarians are amongst the best antique artists in the world.

Like Eric mentioned, as long as you pay for what you get, what they call it doesn't matter. If you get a 40k bass for 10k then the dealer will not stay in business long.

Trust me on this. I am not guessing here. I have seen many of these basses made to look French and Italian (usually). The signs are there if you know where to look. To the naked eye, they look as claimed.

One more story on this.. I subbed at a rehearsal for a singer one day with a 6-8 pc group. The regular guy has an old German/Viennese style Bass. The leader looked at me with my Hungarian-Italian wannabe bass and said 'that's one of those old ones, right?" .. I nodded and continued to play.. Fooled him!!

In one of the Orchestras I played in, my stand partner preferred the sound of this to an older Italian Bass I also played there on occasion. The bass was well made and had a very good sound as I used it myself professionally. It just wasn't an Italian bass like it was labeled and sold to me as. I kept the bass only after adjusting the price with the seller/dealer for what the bass really was. I was fairly happy in the end. The dealer was not.