Tyrol, bohemian , German?

[Carlos Villarreal]

Hi all

i,m about to buy this bass from a former teacher of mine. i already post this same pictures at TB and members jason and paul and some others tell me its Tyrol, Bohemian or German. What do you guys think?..

[Ken Smith]

Does this Bass look similar?



The Scroll on your Bass looks different. I need to see from the front and check for a neck graft. Your Neck looks to be set into a block rather then sitting flush on the Top. This to me says that it has been modified and possibly replaced totally, scroll and all.

These basses have been known as blockless wonders which you can read more about on this forum here and here. These basses were produced into the early 20th century and I have even seen an old advertisement of them from Wurlitzer in 1922 selling from $90. to $180. for the top model and one with 5-strngs as well at that price. All are advertised as 3/4 models but the string lengths average closer to 43" on some and some at 42". Sears also sold them so there may have been more than one factory making these. The prices included a bow, rosin and fingerboard chart. The top two models were round back. The others I assume were flat. The lowest model possible un-purfled but the 2nd and up were advertised as 'edges are finely inlaid' and ebony fingerboard where the $90 model has no mention of either.

The Sears ad which I also have shows a similar bass with the raised neck block area selling for only $75. and can be purchased with only $7.oo down payment. They are 'Made in Germany' according to the ad. This is from 1937. They also state that it comes with 'Imitation old finish'. This may be why they look older than they are. These are made after the first war and before the 2nd war. Of course in 1937 war was breaking out again but this ad is NOT the introduction to the model. Just an old ad I have a copy of. I think after the war in the late 40s the production of these basses are gone.

The wood of the top, back and sides are thinner than average and helps the sound at first. This also helps them crack faster as well. With prices like these especially at $75-$90, the wood must have been cut the day before it was varnished or not far from it. That also makes basses crack and fall apart.

I have seen many many of these basses and most are in horrible condition. A few however looked half the age of the others. Perhaps these were the more expensive ones with aged timber, what ever aged was back then.

Your bass which is usually called Tirolean (Tyrolean) is more than likely from Germany. I don't know really where these were made as southern Germany is at the tip of the Tirol. Maybe some day we will learn which factory made them. In the south I can only think of Baader, a Mittenwald firm that out produced Neuner & Hornsteiner by far and for cheaper from what I have read.

Call it German Tirol to play it safe.

[Carlos Villarreal]

Hi Ken:

This is great information, the owner was unsure but he assumed that it was early 1800,s ....i,ll have a luthier check for the block, but it feel like it has one on the sides below the neck.

The instrument sounds very nice, definitly has ths the complexity of sound of an old instrument in good day I think is better than a so so Italian. Although it has several repaired cracks , For the past 18 years after its restoration has remained in very good condition with no buzzes or cracks.. I understand puting a price is very difficult whithout inspecting the bass in person, but would you say 15 k is an average price for a bass as this.

Again i really apreciate your input, tnx a lot,

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Carlos Villarreal

Hi Ken:

This is great information, the owner was unsure but he assumed that it was early 1800,s ....i,ll have a luthier check for the block, but it feel like it has one on the sides below the neck.

The instrument sounds very nice, definitely has the the complexity of sound of an old instrument in good day I think is better than a so so Italian. Although it has several repaired cracks , For the past 18 years after its restoration has remained in very good condition with no buzzes or cracks.. I understand putting a price is very difficult without inspecting the bass in person, but would you say 15 k is an average price for a bass as this.

Again i really appreciate your input, tnx a lot,

If the bass is fully blocked, restored to 'Museum quality' and sounds Italian, then yes, maybe! I would need to see it in person to do a full valuation for a real personal opinion. This is just talk! Mine is in repair now and will cost at least that for the repairs alone. For a regular old $100 blockless bass I would say no way. They were made cheap to sound old when new. Make sure the bassbar area has no sinkage. I am having my bass' Top fully pressed out and repaired inside to last a lifetime or more. Mine sounds beautiful as well and that's the reason I bought it and am spending an insane amount fixing it.

Also, this style of building is at least 200 years old so late 1800s is possible. The import dates of the Ads I mentioned above do not necessarily date your exact bass. It could just the the period in which they started buying them for the USA market..

[Carlos Villarreal]

Hi Ken:

I just check today for the block me and a luthier/bassist friend of mine and YES there is a block there. Not a very big one but there is one. I also called bassmaker David Estrada who did the restoration 18 years ago and told me the block was there already, he just reasembled that part. So most likly as you said it was already blocked and probably had also another neck put in way earlier. This bass was brought from Poland to Mexico 20 years ago, and before that I been told it was stored for around 40 years.

David who did the restoration believes it to be early 1800,s based on his experience with wood oxidation, but again its just his speculation. We also checked the bass bar area and there is no sinkage at all, the Top has a very nice oval shape (bombatura).

Anyhow i just close the deal today and I,m buying it based on its unique dark sound, easiness of respone with the bow, and overall complexity of tone. Most likely I,ll use it for chamber music and at home, NOT for the tours.
Again thanks for your sharing your research on this "Blockless wonders" or "poor man italian,s".

[Ken Smith]

The best of luck to you and your new bass. It's always best for the bass to find a new home.