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  #121  
Old 03-20-2011, 04:45 PM
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not least of whom is me ...
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  #122  
Old 03-20-2011, 05:29 PM
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Thumbs up lol..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker View Post
not least of whom is me ...
Matthew, at least the cracks in this Bass are minimal. Yes, it needs a lot of work and correction but it could have been a lot worse.
Arnold mentioned that he could have made TWO basses in the time it took to restore the Cornerless attributed Storioni. He turned the job down twice but that's all behind us. Jed who used to work for Arnold has my Gemunder and says it's the hardest job he's ever had. Going on 3 years now, maybe more. I can't remember by we passed at least two X-mas target dates for completion. Cleaning out the old and bad work was the time killer. Going forward should be more downhill.

Keep up the good work. Oh, and multi-piece and laminated blocks are not all that uncommon. I have seen quite a few now in my old basses. Maybe there's a reason for this in the makers mind as most were original that I saw and not a repair or accident.

I'm looking forward to seeing your Dodd model. Maybe start your own 'new' thread on it's make. You think?
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  #123  
Old 03-20-2011, 05:38 PM
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Thanks for that reality check Ken. Yes we have passed the one year mark on this one too. I have a patient client.

The Lott's coming on. There are a few pics on a certain social networking site ;-)
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  #124  
Old 03-20-2011, 07:34 PM
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Cool Lott?

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Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker View Post
Thanks for that reality check Ken. Yes we have passed the one year mark on this one too. I have a patient client.

The Lott's coming on. There are a few pics on a certain social networking site ;-)
Ok, I thought it was a Dodd. Lol.. By the way, Lott was trained IN the Dodd shop so depending on the period, it's either bass. But, trained by Fendt snr..
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  #125  
Old 06-19-2011, 05:41 PM
Steve Alcott Steve Alcott is offline
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Any progress, Matthew?
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  #126  
Old 06-19-2011, 09:49 PM
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Not a lot. It's winter, the days are shorter and its cold in the workshop. I am still looking foa a nice piece of flamed maple to match the back button which is the next repair to do. Also still undecided whether to replace the neck and make completely new scroll or whether its worth trying to save the original and splice on a new neck.
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  #127  
Old 06-19-2011, 10:03 PM
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Cool Scroll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker View Post
Not a lot. It's winter, the days are shorter and its cold in the workshop. I am still looking foa a nice piece of flamed maple to match the back button which is the next repair to do. Also still undecided whether to replace the neck and make completely new scroll or whether its worth trying to save the original and splice on a new neck.
By all means, to keep the value, repair the old scroll and graft a new neck. If unsure, please show pics of the areas that look challenging to fix. The button and scroll are important to save. The pegbox sides can have repairs and inlaid new cheeks if necessary.
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  #128  
Old 06-20-2011, 12:09 AM
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that's my instinct, yes, but if the amount of wood i have to replace by re-cheeking etc is significant, then the only thing original left is the volute itself. The amount of work to repair, recheek, graft neck could be more than the work to make a new scroll.

This is an unlabelled bass of unknown quality and origin, being restored as a playing instrument and not a museum piece. Its a cost/benefit situation!

[edit] PLUS, I think it's a beech neck/head, not maple ...

So ... undecided.

I've posted a few pics here:

http://bresque.studio205.net.au/work...-broken-scroll
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  #129  
Old 06-20-2011, 12:48 AM
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Cool ok..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker View Post
that's my instinct, yes, but if the amount of wood i have to replace by re-cheeking etc is significant, then the only thing original left is the volute itself. The amount of work to repair, recheek, graft neck could be more than the work to make a new scroll.

This is an unlabelled bass of unknown quality and origin, being restored as a playing instrument and not a museum piece. Its a cost/benefit situation!

[edit] PLUS, I think it's a beech neck/head, not maple ...

So ... undecided.

I've posted a few pics here:

http://bresque.studio205.net.au/work...-broken-scroll
If this were my bass, label or no label I would have it glued and repaired as well as re-cheeked with plain type maple. Under varnish it will look close and will be stronger. The graft should be a long one up to the end of the pegbox so the original is more of an outer shell. Then it can be re-cheeked either flush with some of the original cheeks shaved, or protruding, inlaid and looking more like a Pillement up neat the end of the box or, just over about 1/8th inch and blended in. In other words, do what ever you have to do to save the head, button and outer shell especially the back of the scroll veining. If you like, I can post some scroll pics of all ideas and explain what can't be easily seen under the varnish.

Regardless of the fact you don't know the exact maker or shop, this bass WAS made most likely in Mirecourt in the latter part of the 19th century give or take a few decades. So, it's somewhere between Lamy, Jacquet, Claudot or one of the shops or makers. The J.T. Lamy factory probably made more basses than all of the others combined in that period but there were also shops that just made parts and Scrolls for others that would complete the basses and label them. This is a Mirecourt Bass, no less that that and the wood is beautiful on the back and sides. It should be preserved with the same care as any other fine instrument. IF you make a new Scroll to save time, it will hurt the value of the bass in one way or another. I have seen one Claudot that had a later English scroll and was re-varnished but the bass was so good and the Scroll was so nice, it 'only' took 7 years to sell! If it had been restored all original, I am sure it would have sold much quicker.

Now that the bass is in your hands, you have total control to either 'restore' it as close to the makers/shops original model or, 'modify' it as you see fit for your convenience or concept. Shortening the string length for a bass like this if over 42" would be the only real modification I would recommend. That could be done with the neck graft, lower heel and the neck set in slightly deeper into the block. The Mougenot was just restored that way and it came out beautifully.

From what I have seen of your work, I have no doubt you have it in you to restore this back to it's old glory as good as anyone can. Just be patient and consider this to be possibly a French pedigree or value. When completed, the bass will thank you in its own way. I am sure of that.
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  #130  
Old 06-29-2011, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
If this were my bass, label or no label I would have it glued and repaired as well as re-cheeked with plain type maple. Under varnish it will look close and will be stronger. The graft should be a long one up to the end of the pegbox so the original is more of an outer shell. Then it can be re-cheeked either flush with some of the original cheeks shaved, or protruding, inlaid and looking more like a Pillement up neat the end of the box or, just over about 1/8th inch and blended in. In other words, do what ever you have to do to save the head, button and outer shell especially the back of the scroll veining. If you like, I can post some scroll pics of all ideas and explain what can't be easily seen under the varnish.

Regardless of the fact you don't know the exact maker or shop, this bass WAS made most likely in Mirecourt in the latter part of the 19th century give or take a few decades. So, it's somewhere between Lamy, Jacquet, Claudot or one of the shops or makers. The J.T. Lamy factory probably made more basses than all of the others combined in that period but there were also shops that just made parts and Scrolls for others that would complete the basses and label them. This is a Mirecourt Bass, no less that that and the wood is beautiful on the back and sides. It should be preserved with the same care as any other fine instrument. IF you make a new Scroll to save time, it will hurt the value of the bass in one way or another. I have seen one Claudot that had a later English scroll and was re-varnished but the bass was so good and the Scroll was so nice, it 'only' took 7 years to sell! If it had been restored all original, I am sure it would have sold much quicker.

Now that the bass is in your hands, you have total control to either 'restore' it as close to the makers/shops original model or, 'modify' it as you see fit for your convenience or concept. Shortening the string length for a bass like this if over 42" would be the only real modification I would recommend. That could be done with the neck graft, lower heel and the neck set in slightly deeper into the block. The Mougenot was just restored that way and it came out beautifully.

From what I have seen of your work, I have no doubt you have it in you to restore this back to it's old glory as good as anyone can. Just be patient and consider this to be possibly a French pedigree or value. When completed, the bass will thank you in its own way. I am sure of that.
Nice post.
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  #131  
Old 08-01-2011, 09:13 PM
John Leach John Leach is offline
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Default Warming up?

Matthew, is the shop warming up a bit? We are anxiously awaiting the next installment in the restoration saga.

John
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  #132  
Old 08-03-2011, 06:17 PM
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Haha yes it is warming up and i have started on the restoration again. Will put some pics up soon. Keep bugging me, it helps!
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  #133  
Old 08-03-2011, 07:44 PM
John Leach John Leach is offline
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Default Thank you

Matthew, thank you for posting photos of the restoration. The workmanship and skill is amazing! This thread is the first thing I check when I log on.

John
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  #134  
Old 08-04-2011, 09:33 AM
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Well, here we go again.

the last few days in Sydney have been in the 23-26C range which isn't bad for midwinter.

I decided I really need to get the back off next. Normally i would at least tack the front back on the ribs, but I suspect I'll have to work from inside and out to get this apart, so instead I just made sure the blocks were well braced in position.

The chalk marks show where there are rib cracks that will need attention.



Carefully directed steam from the inside.



Here's a shot of the thick centre linings very typical of this sort of bass. A big glue surface, not easy to make it let go!



Here's another nicer view. The slab-cut centre brace is flush with the linings, probably didn't help cracking when the back shrunk a little!

That's a rib crack you can see above the lining. Look how well finished these corner blocks are!



I love these corners





... but I have to start somewhere.





After a lot of wiggling, hammering, steaming, tapping, more steaming and more wiggling and lots of cursing, the back is finally off!



So here's a good shot of that centre brace. It has split right through, and it will have to go.
It is, however, stuck on very well!


Last edited by Matthew Tucker; 08-05-2011 at 08:38 AM.
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  #135  
Old 08-05-2011, 08:57 AM
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I started by washing away 150 years of crud.



There are some interesting spots of some sort of reddish paint/dye perhaps ground coat?



and the edges when scraped clean show some of the original colour.



Pity I can't resurrect the original finsh. But it has completely deteriorated. This is how the varnish looks now, and look at the glorious wood underneath.



Here's how some of the inside back cleaned up. The plane is just for scale, about life size here. I washed the crud off with water and a plastic sponge, the lovely old patina remains.

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  #136  
Old 08-05-2011, 08:58 AM
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This brace is very neatly made. But it's no good for this bass any more, and has to go.





I started out with the scrub plane but it was hard going so I went hi-tech.



Hogged out with the horrible Arbortec. I hate this tool but it has its uses.





Thinned with a thumbplane down to a veneer



Then steamed off.

Here's a peeling of the final layer. Notice the corrugations on the glue side. They look too even to be made with a toothed plane. I wonder how this was finished before gluing?



After a clean up and scrub.



Beautiful flame here.





Looks kind of 3D, doesn't it? But it's smooth.

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  #137  
Old 08-05-2011, 12:20 PM
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Cool Bracing

Matt, I don't know how many French Basses like this you have done but just in case I would tell the experiences we've had here.

If it has the single step wide brace, good or bad, take it out. Put a normal Center brace, one lower and one upper. On the Mougenot bass of mine just restored by Jeff Bollbach he took out the single center brace which was not so different than your bass. The the replaced center is standard, flat about 5" wide or so. The upper and lower braces are shaped like a Bass bar, higher in the middle and tapered at he ends, maybe about 1 1/4" wide from looking thru the f-hole.

I also have a nice Claudot here, similar high flame wood like your bass and a single center brace as well. The bass is in fantastic shape and has has only a few repairs. On the brace stamped in 2 places is the name "Paul Claudot". Perhaps the stamps in the brace discouraged the past repairers from changing it.

The Mougenot is much more focused sounding now, fuller in tone and less hollow/French sounding like it was before the restoration. Perhaps the new bracing system helped.
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  #138  
Old 08-05-2011, 06:15 PM
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I looked all over the back and brace with a magnifying glass for identifying marks but found none, unfortunately.

As you will see from the posts above, I have taken out the brace. I will probably replace it with bracing similar to this I am using on my Lott copy build below.



Is this similar to the bracing Jeff did on your Claudot?

There is a bit of work to be done re-shaping the back lower bout on this french bass. over the years it has sunken inwards and put the rest of the back out of shape. I want to restore to flat or preferably a slight outward dishing. This may take some time! I have to redo the centre seam first.
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  #139  
Old 08-05-2011, 07:55 PM
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Cool Mougenot!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker View Post
I looked all over the back and brace with a magnifying glass for identifying marks but found none, unfortunately.

As you will see from the posts above, I have taken out the brace. I will probably replace it with bracing similar to this I am using on my Lott copy build below.



Is this similar to the bracing Jeff did on your Claudot?

There is a bit of work to be done re-shaping the back lower bout on this french bass. over the years it has sunken inwards and put the rest of the back out of shape. I want to restore to flat or preferably a slight outward dishing. This may take some time! I have to redo the centre seam first.
On the Mougenot, not the Claudot. The Claudot is still with its original single brace. Your pics are similar but the upper brace is thinner and looks just like a bass bar. Not quite as wide or tall as yours are. Center seams are common fixed needed on French Flatbacks. The single center wide brace seems to promote that mandolin type bending of the shape of the back as well.
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  #140  
Old 08-09-2011, 07:54 PM
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Using a heat blanket to restore a bit of dish in the lower bout.



While the back is still together, I tack a frame onto each half before removing the remaining cleats. I need to do this because the "flat" back is not really flat, and I can't just clamp it to a flat surface for gluing. It's behaving somewhat like a roundback!



This shows the big crack next to the centreline. Also note how this cleat was not very well glued to the back anyway!



All the cleats removed. Revealing an ugly piece of work.



Steaming the centre joint apart carefully



Careful not to let crap fall into the crevasse!



The separated back on its frame.



Closeup of the grand canyon seen from the outside


The crack was previously repaired and filled with some kind of brown putty which I have had to remove under magnification with a knife and pressurized steam.

You can see a blob of the putty in the above pic.
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