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Old 09-13-2009, 11:23 PM
Greg Lorisco Greg Lorisco is offline
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Default 5 and 6 string Action

What is the lowest action you guys with KS 5 and 6 string basses (and KS strings) have been able to achieve without fret noise? I think 3/32 would be a good height for the low B or can KS get lower without noise?

Just looking for comparison.

Thanks
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:32 PM
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Cool Lowest action?

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Originally Posted by Greg Lorisco View Post
What is the lowest action you guys with KS 5 and 6 string basses (and KS strings) have been able to achieve without fret noise? Thanks
Using my Smith BSR5EG and using Smith Medium Taper Cores, I am providing the following as a general guideline from my set-up.

The following are my measurements for string clearance across the fretboard at the 12th and 24th frets (measured from top of fret to bottom of string):

String clearance across fretboard at 12th. Fret (strings not fretted):

B - 4/64
E - 3/64
A - 3/64
D - 3/64
G - 3/64

String clearance across fretboard at 24th. Fret (strings not fretted):

B - 4/64
E - 3/64
A - 3/64
D - 3/64
G - 3/64

NOTE: Notice the consistency of the above two measurements at both 12th and 24th frets. This is what happens with a perfect neck, fret, and fretboard work.


The following are measurements at the leading edge and top of the neck and bridge P/U's when strings are fretted at the 24th fret:

String clearance (with strings fretted at 24th fret) across fretboard at leading edge and top of Neck P/U:

B - 5/64
E - 7/64
A - 7/64
D - 7/64
G - 5/64

String clearance (with strings fretted at 24th fret) across fretboard at leading edge and top of Bridge P/U:

B - 6/64
E - 8/64
A - 8/64
D - 8/64
G - 6/64

Important: If your P/U's utilize the Poll Pieces and you make adjustments to them (i.e. raising them), measurements should be made from the top of the poll pieces to bottom of strings.

Additionally, all things being equal, I would use this similar set-up for a 4 or 6 string bass.

Again, these are my settings for my Smith basses (+/- 1/64th.). I'm not suggesting you set-up your bass as I have, however, you may want to give it a try and determine if it works for you.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:43 PM
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Cool Fret noise?

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Originally Posted by Greg Lorisco View Post
What is the lowest action you guys with KS 5 and 6 string basses (and KS strings) have been able to achieve without fret noise?
Thanks
Fret noise? This will depend on the player and/or the players technique.

Personally, I like the edge frets can provide, but that doesn't mean (using the set-up I use) that I have to contend with "fret noise" when I don't want it.
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:06 AM
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Cool lowest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Lorisco View Post
What is the lowest action you guys with KS 5 and 6 string basses (and KS strings) have been able to achieve without fret noise? I think 3/32 would be a good height for the low B or can KS get lower without noise?

Just looking for comparison.

Thanks
I never measure action. I play the bass and adjust it till it plays well. If the string height (action?) is too low, you wont be able to dig and and get sound from the bass. If you like paying speed tricks then I can see the need for guitar like action, hence, playing a bigger guitar. My concept of playing the bass is simple. Playing the BASS, not the Flute or Guitar or Piano.

I made my living playing bass for 20 years. Playing tricks or extra notes does not sit well with other musicians. They just want the bass part from a bass player.

Playing for fun and playing for a living is often two different types of playing!
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:00 PM
Greg Lorisco Greg Lorisco is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Bishop View Post
Using my Smith BSR5EG and using Smith Medium Taper Cores, I am providing the following as a general guideline from my set-up.

The following are my measurements for string clearance across the fretboard at the 12th and 24th frets (measured from top of fret to bottom of string):

String clearance across fretboard at 12th. Fret (strings not fretted):

B - 4/64
E - 3/64
A - 3/64
D - 3/64
G - 3/64

String clearance across fretboard at 24th. Fret (strings not fretted):

B - 4/64
E - 3/64
A - 3/64
D - 3/64
G - 3/64

NOTE: Notice the consistency of the above two measurements at both 12th and 24th frets. This is what happens with a perfect neck, fret, and fretboard work.


The following are measurements at the leading edge and top of the neck and bridge P/U's when strings are fretted at the 24th fret:

String clearance (with strings fretted at 24th fret) across fretboard at leading edge and top of Neck P/U:

B - 5/64
E - 7/64
A - 7/64
D - 7/64
G - 5/64

String clearance (with strings fretted at 24th fret) across fretboard at leading edge and top of Bridge P/U:

B - 6/64
E - 8/64
A - 8/64
D - 8/64
G - 6/64

Important: If your P/U's utilize the Poll Pieces and you make adjustments to them (i.e. raising them), measurements should be made from the top of the poll pieces to bottom of strings.

Additionally, all things being equal, I would use this similar set-up for a 4 or 6 string bass.

Again, these are my settings for my Smith basses (+/- 1/64th.). I'm not suggesting you set-up your bass as I have, however, you may want to give it a try and determine if it works for you.

Tim, the same measurements at the 12 and 24th fret? That is awesome! Very nice indeed. Are the KS medium taper cores you use Nickel? That helps with fret noise.

As for frets adding edge, I guess that depends on the bass. Most basses it just sounds bad, but I can see how on a KS is could actually give it a fretless growl. Is that what you are referring to?
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:22 PM
Greg Lorisco Greg Lorisco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
I never measure action. I play the bass and adjust it till it plays well. If the string height (action?) is too low, you wont be able to dig and and get sound from the bass. If you like paying speed tricks then I can see the need for guitar like action, hence, playing a bigger guitar. My concept of playing the bass is simple. Playing the BASS, not the Flute or Guitar or Piano.

I made my living playing bass for 20 years. Playing tricks or extra notes does not sit well with other musicians. They just want the bass part from a bass player.

Playing for fun and playing for a living is often two different types of playing!
Ken, I have not been playing as long as you and can appreciate and agree with what you are saying. However, a lot of the gigs I play have sets with fairly complex (fast and intricate) basslines that are not adding notes, they are actually part of the arrangement. Having a big spongy action does not work well for these kids of pieces. Sure, rock and other 16th note based music does not require fast changes across that neck, so high action would be fine. But some Jazz, R&B, and Gospel is an entirely different animal.

Also, the instrument, thanks to early pioneers, has been pushed way beyond basic simple grooves in a lot of venues. While playing more notes in the past may have been new and threatening to other musicians, today it is often expected. In fact, I have been asked more than once to do fast guitar-like runs (sometimes as a unison line with the lead guitar).

So I would have to say that overall, depending on the style you play, lower action will help most of the time for most players in most venues.
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:40 PM
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Tim Bishop Tim Bishop is offline
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Cool Nickels...No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Lorisco View Post
Are the KS medium taper cores you use Nickel? That helps with fret noise.
No, not nickel. Again, "fret noise" can occur with a bad set-up or in the hands of a player with bad technique/control.
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Old 09-16-2009, 06:56 PM
Greg Lorisco Greg Lorisco is offline
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Originally Posted by Tim Bishop View Post
No, not nickel. Again, "fret noise" can occur with a bad set-up or in the hands of a player with bad technique/control.

True, but you mentioned that you liked fret noise, so I was inquiring as to what you meant by that?
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Old 09-16-2009, 07:42 PM
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Smile Not exactly.

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Originally Posted by Greg Lorisco View Post
True, but you mentioned that you liked fret noise, so I was inquiring as to what you meant by that?
No, I never said I "liked fret noise". What I said was this:

"I like the edge frets can provide, but that doesn't mean (using the set-up I use) that I have to contend with "fret noise" when I don't want it". There is a difference. Make sense?

"Growl" can mean different things to different players. The "edge" description I'm using is more of a biting-metallic-bright sound ("edge") that frets can produce when played for that purpose. I can't think of a better way to clarify this at the moment. BUT, if that makes sense to you and you call that "growl", then "growl" it is.
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:52 PM
Greg Lorisco Greg Lorisco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Bishop View Post
No, I never said I "liked fret noise". What I said was this:

"I like the edge frets can provide, but that doesn't mean (using the set-up I use) that I have to contend with "fret noise" when I don't want it". There is a difference. Make sense?

"Growl" can mean different things to different players. The "edge" description I'm using is more of a biting-metallic-bright sound ("edge") that frets can produce when played for that purpose. I can't think of a better way to clarify this at the moment. BUT, if that makes sense to you and you call that "growl", then "growl" it is.

Ok, that makes sense. I have never played a KS bass, but have heard a few and they all seem to have growl to them and I wasn’t sure if some of that was from fret rattle as well as the wood and just the general timbre of the instrument.
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