Ken's Corner (Bass Forums Sponsored By KSB)

Go Back   Ken's Corner (Bass Forums Sponsored By KSB) > Electric Basses > Smith Basses, Handmade

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-31-2011, 11:59 PM
Steven Freitas Steven Freitas is offline
Junior Posting Member
 
Join Date: 07-31-2011
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 27
Steven Freitas is on a distinguished road
Default Anthony Jackson Contra Bass

Can you shed some light on what it was like to work
with Anthony Jackson. Some credit him with being the one
with the idea for such an instrument, yet if it wasn't for
you Ken, none of that might have happened. I remember
Bass Player magazine having a picture of a custom instrument
which appears to be a Ken Smith Contra Bass. I know this was
after the original two that were made for him and Bill Dickens.

I don't mean to pry, but the history of your instruments has
always fascinated me. If you were building what I would call
an exquisite instrument, why would someone turn to another
manufacturer that, for lack of better words, hacked your designs
for their own benefit.

Please let us know the real story.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-01-2011, 02:12 AM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,851
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Lightbulb well..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Freitas View Post
Can you shed some light on what it was like to work
with Anthony Jackson. Some credit him with being the one
with the idea for such an instrument, yet if it wasn't for
you Ken, none of that might have happened. I remember
Bass Player magazine having a picture of a custom instrument
which appears to be a Ken Smith Contra Bass. I know this was
after the original two that were made for him and Bill Dickens.

I don't mean to pry, but the history of your instruments has
always fascinated me. If you were building what I would call
an exquisite instrument, why would someone turn to another
manufacturer that, for lack of better words, hacked your designs
for their own benefit.

Please let us know the real story.
Once again, several points and subjects here.

As far as working with AJ and what it's like, we had known each other professionally for many years prior to me starting my company. He was one of the other young players that followed me in the bass chair with Horace Silver. At some concert in the Bronx around 1970-71 or so I had seen him playing on a short Scale Fender and later met him I think at Carl Thompson's shop. When Stanley Clarke first moved to NY from Philly he needed some start-up money and took out a loan at the Union, Local 802. Anthony and I were his co-signers. On occasion we played for some of the same people and I remember even subbing for him on a Concert set with Eddie Daniels uptown in NY. When I started making basses he tried one of the first ones that had only 1 pickup and then returned it saying he needed 2 pickups. He also said he really wanted a 6-string. Then I took his old Fender and cleaned it up a bit including slightly re-carving and sanding/finishing the back of his neck. That was his MAIN bass then so as I was using one of MY new Basses, I loaned him my personal Prototype that I had been using since 1976, before my company even started.

I could write a small book on stories about Anthony and myself but to keep it short, we made him that first bass but started 2 of them 'just in case'. The second was later ordered by someone else but he backed out before it was completed. Finally we finished the bass and when Bill Dickens came to NY with Ramsey Lewis, I loaned him the bass to play on stage. The bass eventually became 'his' bass as History already knows.

Anthony's first bass went thru about 2 re-builds in one way or another that I can remember. One with the body wings being changed and also a re-finish as well. Then, we changed the Circuit as well. Somewhere along the line I think I tried more than one pickup idea in it too. This was like almost 30 years ago and I am doing this all from memory. Then, Anthony wanted another bass with wider spacing around 19mm, like his Fender. The first bass was I think 17.5mm or so which we decided on from looking over the previous 6 made for him by Carl Thompson a few years earlier. I asked to see that Bass so I would know what mistakes 'not' to repeat as far as what he didn't like about it.

The 2nd bass was quite a bit more complicated. Now you will hear a few things about his thinking that most people in the world don't know and never will I assume. We went together to 2 lumber places hunting for special woods to make his 2nd bass. One exotic wood place in NY had some Ebony lumber from Africa so I picked a piece to make the fingerboard. For the Body top, we drove down to south Jersey to another lumber place and found a beautiful piece of Crotch Walnut that I used for the body. While there I remember I saw a fantastic board of Tiger maple and added that to my order which I think they may have shipped to me because I wanted the wood split and was too big for the saws we had in the shop. This is AJ, the busy studio guy (I was fairly busy as well) who drove with me just for a piece of wood, twice! He said, I want this to be the only one you make like this so no one else can ever get it. So, I made that promise to him. It was quite different than anything we had made or have made to date and for a good reason. He sort of designed the body and head in suggestion at the least. The lower horn hit you leg and his legs are/were thicker than mine and the head was huge. It was a beautiful bass but expensive to make. I mentioned it would cost more than the first one but in his words he said "no problem, just throw money at it". Well, the two basses with all the work and re-builds in total ran about $11,000 between 1981 and 1985. He still wasn't happy and by that time after him visiting Fodera's own new shop where we finished off the second bass (woodworking only), they saw in my opinion a 'meal ticket' in teaming up with AJ for business.

I doubt AJ paid much if even a dime to them to make his basses after that but I did all the design leg work in figuring all the neck dimensions and so on to make a stable wide spaced 6-string bass.

When Fodera started his business he contacted just about every supplier of mine to make parts and accessories for them. I even sold Fodera a ton of wood as well as all the machines and Jigs from the 1980 -'83 shop that made the wood parts of the early Smith basses after the first 30 or so that were done in part at the Spector shop before that business was sold.

During the making of the 2nd AJ bass we were already making the BT model of which one of the first was bought by Pattitucci. This was my design, not Anthony's and, it was comfortable and more practical to build than his multitude of ideas he had combined in that 2nd bass. Regardless of my advice about what would work or not, he wanted it to be made HIS way. The results, it was about the least comfortable bass ever to bear my name. Actually, the least. The Flying V we did for Stanley WAS a one-off and not intended as an every day stage or studio bass so that shouldn't be included in the failed comfort list. That list has only one bass on it in my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-01-2011, 01:07 PM
Steven Freitas Steven Freitas is offline
Junior Posting Member
 
Join Date: 07-31-2011
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 27
Steven Freitas is on a distinguished road
Default

Hey Ken.

As I have read elsewhere on this site, you should write
a book. Seriously. All the stories are good reading even
for non-bass fanatics. Who knows. LOL

In the long run, we all learn a lot from past encounters. I kind
of agree that so-called signature instruments are really of no merit
unless you are the artist that it was made for. From a business standpoint,
there's really got to be a lot of demand for it to make economic sense.
AJ or Patticucci are individuals with different needs and wants, which may
not satisfy a wider audience.

I do believe that your products speak for themselves. If you have a well
made product that is fairly priced for what it is able to accomplish you
have done your job.

Last edited by Steven Freitas; 08-01-2011 at 01:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-01-2011, 01:57 PM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,851
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up book?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Freitas View Post
Hey Ken.

As I have read elsewhere on this site, you should write
a book. Seriously. All the stories are good reading even
for non-bass fanatics. Who knows. LOL

In the long run, we all learn a lot from past encounters. I kind
of agree that so-called signature instruments are really of no merit
unless you are the artist that it was made for. From a business standpoint,
there's really got to be a lot of demand for it to make economic sense.
AJ or Patticucci are individuals with different needs and wants, which may
not satisfy a wider audience.

I do believe that your products speak for themselves. If you have a well
made product that is fairly priced for what it is able to accomplish you
have done your job.
First off, my answer to a book is always the same. Yes, come write it FOR me and I will talk till bedtime and then start again the next day. Someone needs to get a Motel room for 2-3 months here and work with me over dinner each night and maybe weekends as well. Between my mind (while I still have it) and my records at the office, I can make the book quite large.

Also, I would add to your last quote, "You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people All of the time."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-29-2011, 11:17 AM
Peter Hennes Peter Hennes is offline
Junior Posting Member
 
Join Date: 11-25-2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1
Peter Hennes is on a distinguished road
Default

Interesting story about the development of that bass, Ken. I have the fifth one you made - the one that Pattitucci wanted, but I got my money in first! It's got a flamed maple back and top on a mahogany core with gold plated hardware. When I bought it, you told me it was made for the NAMM show that year. It's an incredible instrument!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-29-2011, 12:49 PM
Eduardo Barbosa Eduardo Barbosa is offline
Posting Member
 
Join Date: 12-05-2009
Location: Denver-CO
Posts: 45
Eduardo Barbosa is on a distinguished road
Default

Great story.
I remember seeing AJ's bass back in the late 80's I think...
does anyone here has a picture of his ken smith basses?

Also, even though this has to do with personal taste, I have talked to a few people that never understood why Patitucci would switch to Yamaha, being that clearly his earlier albums sound so much better with his Ken Smith.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-29-2011, 02:10 PM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,851
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Lightbulb Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eduardo barbosa View Post
great story.
I remember seeing aj's bass back in the late 80's i think...
Does anyone here has a picture of his ken smith basses?

Also, even though this has to do with personal taste, i have talked to a few people that never understood why patitucci would switch to yamaha, being that clearly his earlier albums sound so much better with his ken smith.
$ $ $ $ $ $ $
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2007 - Ken Smith Basses, LTD. (All Rights Reserved)