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  #1  
Old 04-06-2007, 10:14 PM
Chris Rapadas Chris Rapadas is offline
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Default Electric player using 1/2 size bass.

Hello all,I am new to the double bass.I have been playing electric for over 15 years and,have decided to start playing DB.I have my first bass coming in a couple of days it is,a LIDL 1/2 size.My thoughts were I would have an easier time transitioning from 34"-35" scale to a 39" string length.Does this make any sense?

My other concern is,will a teacher take Me serious with this bass?I have decided to approach DB as a totally new instrument.So, I will be seeking a teacher to bring me from the bottom up.The bass cost Me $265 shipped on a greyhound so it's not that big of a deal.BTW I'm 5' 11" so.....

Any input would be great and,thanks in advance.....,Chris.
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  #2  
Old 04-06-2007, 11:33 PM
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Michael Case Michael Case is offline
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I see several problems with this. First is you'll have to adjust to a 3/4 sized bass anyway and getting a 1/2 size really doesn't help the transition. Secondly, when you want to get a 3/4 bass it will be hard to sell the 1/2 size bass since it's not a desirable instrument due to it's smaller size.

If it's not too late, cancel the 1/2 size order and get a 3/4 sized bass. It's not that hard of a transition. Trust me, I went from EB after about 15 years to DB and while it does take time, the size difference is quickly manageable.
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  #3  
Old 04-07-2007, 02:01 AM
Chris Rapadas Chris Rapadas is offline
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Michael,thanks for the advice.I really have had those points in mind and, I agree.Unfortunately,it is too late to cancel the order however, I have a luthier who will set it up for Me then maybe I can sell it to recover cost.Thanks again!Anyone else want to chime in?
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Old 04-07-2007, 04:21 AM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rapadas View Post
Michael,thanks for the advice.I really have had those points in mind and, I agree.Unfortunately,it is too late to cancel the order however, I have a luthier who will set it up for Me then maybe I can sell it to recover cost.Thanks again!Anyone else want to chime in?
Hi Chris, Richard here. I once bought a 1/2 size bass for a theatre gig... I was between owning 3/4 basses and this was the only one available. I adjusted quickly and don't feel that it hindered my playing.
Michael Case gives good advice, but you have to deal with the reality of where you are. My present bass is a fraction shorter than a 3/4 and, when I play other basses, it takes a little time to adjust, but not long. As you play the 1/2 size just think how a bigger bass would feel. I'm serious!
Get your technique going on this bass and start planning for a bigger version when finances allow.
Good luck.
Don't forget to check out the 'Down Here (NZ)' thread in the Bull Pit.
Ciao
Richard
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  #5  
Old 04-07-2007, 04:43 AM
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Thumbs up String Length & sizes..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rapadas View Post
Michael,thanks for the advice.I really have had those points in mind and, I agree.Unfortunately,it is too late to cancel the order however, I have a luthier who will set it up for Me then maybe I can sell it to recover cost.Thanks again!Anyone else want to chime in?
DBs are really not that well standardized as for as sizes go. A 3/4 Bass can be anywhere from 40" to 43" string length. I think it's the overall body size that makes a Bass 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8 etc. Older Basses were made for different styles of playing being mainly Orchestral and not Solo or Jazz. Today the desired string length is about 41 1/2" for a professional Orchestral player with the range being 41" - 42" string length. This is found in most 3/4 and 7/8 sized Basses with the 7/8 having a slightly larger body. Many old Italian Basses have smaller measurements having been made for Opera works where size and volume of sound was not needed as much as the later 19th century louder Orchestral Basses.

This is a never ending topic and since I can go on and on, I will end the size lecture with this note. For what you want to do, I don't see any problem with starting with a 39" string length which by the way is closer to a 5/8" size but again, that depends on the body measurements. If it were 41" then it would only be 1 inch longer from the Nut to the Octave (12th fret on a Bass Guitar). That is not a big deal. Also to be considered and understood is that playing in an upright position like you do with the DB hence the nickname 'Upright Bass' your left hand/wrist is in a much more relaxed position able to stretch and pivot easier than when playing Horizontally on a BG which can cause wrist pains when stretching or playing long hours. Therefore the longer string lengths are not really much or a problem until you start getting over 42". My latest Bass acquisition is about a 44 1/2" string length and with a slight adjustment a mere 44 1/4" S.L.. I bought the Bass a in February and played a Concert with it only a few days later switching from a 41" Bass with little difficulty only and I had a huge Bass Solo to play with the Orchestra besides (STRAVINSKY Suite de Pulcinella).

The DB has many more difficulties than just string length. In the Orchestra world, it's just a big Violin meaning that the music you play is similar or the same as the Cello and often close the to Violin in harder works meaning 'no Mercy' given due to size. You play what's written and bite your lip!..lol

Best of luck and keep us informed of your progress. I am sure your questions will turn to playing tips and solutions in the near future..
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Old 04-07-2007, 12:10 PM
Chris Rapadas Chris Rapadas is offline
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Richard,Ken,Thank You guy's so much!I was hoping for good advice and this Forum really delivers.I am really excited to be a member here and,think it's just awesome to get information from Great players such as yourselves.

I will now be a regular here.I feel much more comfy here than in other forums(I will use those for BG)..But, Ken's corner is the cat's meow!!
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Old 04-07-2007, 05:02 PM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
The DB has many more difficulties than just string length. In the Orchestra world, it's just a big Violin meaning that the music you play is similar or the same as the Cello and often close the to Violin in harder works meaning 'no Mercy' given due to size. You play what's written and bite your lip!..lol
I may be wrong (what, me wrong?) but I've read that in Beethoven's day the lousiest musicians (presumably string players) were put onto double bass and told to 'double the cello part' (an octave lower, of course). They weren't expected to 'get' all the notes.
Isn't it a bit easier though, Ken, when there's 6 or 8 of you playing the same part? I did some jazz gigs with Gordon Brisker in 1997 (my dad died while we were on tour... so I missed the latter gigs) and there were some pretty important people in the band. He called some hard (and fast) tunes and you had to nail them... there was nowhere to hide! Both disciplines (jazz & classical) can be the test of a man IMO.

IMO is Ken's Corner talk for 'in my opinion'.
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Old 04-07-2007, 05:24 PM
Chris Rapadas Chris Rapadas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Prowse View Post
I may be wrong (what, me wrong?) but I've read that in Beethoven's day the lousiest musicians (presumably string players) were put onto double bass and told to 'double the cello part' (an octave lower, of course). They weren't expected to 'get' all the notes.
Isn't it a bit easier though, Ken, when there's 6 or 8 of you playing the same part? I did some jazz gigs with Gordon Brisker in 1997 (my dad died while we were on tour... so I missed the latter gigs) and there were some pretty important people in the band. He called some hard (and fast) tunes and you had to nail them... there was nowhere to hide! Both disciplines (jazz & classical) can be the test of a man IMO.

IMO is Ken's Corner talk for 'in my opinion'.
Richard,I know that's how it is.BUT,...I will be playing(on a few songs) DB in a Indie,lo-fi setting,i.e. Tom Waits,..ect..So,I will be playing gigs with DB before I (in My mind)I even know how to play it.I guess I'm overconfident but,..Heck!!!

On another note,I want to ask,what do you(or anyone) think I should begin my DB studies in?Jazz?Classical?I respect and love all music.I'm thinking Jazz since I don't know if I will ever play in an orchestral setting.
But, ya never know!.....maybe both!!BTW it's great to be starting with a clean slate!(I will be able to learn things the rite way!!).....Chris.

BTW,I played on a bandstand from the 4th to 12th grade so I remember 6-8 people playing the same part!Trumpet though,...wrong clef......
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Old 04-07-2007, 06:33 PM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rapadas View Post
Richard,I know that's how it is.BUT,...I will be playing(on a few songs) DB in a Indie,lo-fi setting,i.e. Tom Waits,..ect..So,I will be playing gigs with DB before I (in My mind)I even know how to play it.I guess I'm overconfident but,..Heck!!!

On another note,I want to ask,what do you(or anyone) think I should begin my DB studies in?Jazz?Classical?I respect and love all music.I'm thinking Jazz since I don't know if I will ever play in an orchestral setting.
But, ya never know!.....maybe both!!BTW it's great to be starting with a clean slate!(I will be able to learn things the rite way!!).....Chris.

BTW,I played on a bandstand from the 4th to 12th grade so I remember 6-8 people playing the same part!Trumpet though,...wrong clef......
Chris, get a bow and do some scales and get a book like Simandl (guys like Ken will probably know of better books that are now available).
Start by working out all your major scales and arpeggios and practise them around the cycle of 4ths. If you build up some' Classical' technique, whatever you finish up playing will sound better. Ah, I love Tom Waits!
Remember that the DB really is just a big bass guitar, you can do it!... oops, someone will give me a hard time for saying that!
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  #10  
Old 04-07-2007, 06:49 PM
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Thumbs up Books you say?

http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=56

Read that link but one of the better new Book for Bowing beginners is 'My First Simandl'. This will get you started and then some!
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Old 04-07-2007, 07:13 PM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=56

Read that link but one of the better new Book for Bowing beginners is 'My First Simandl'. This will get you started and then some!
We'll that about sums up the book debate! I remember reading that post before.
Sounds like you're a Simandl fan Kenneth.
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Old 04-07-2007, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard Prowse View Post
We'll that about sums up the book debate! I remember reading that post before.
Sounds like you're a Simandl fan Kenneth.
Well, Simandl is like serious Boot Camp. The other Book I mentioned 'My First Simandl' is more like Sneaker Camp..

Still, it's a serious matter learning the Bass...
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Old 04-07-2007, 07:39 PM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Well, Simandl is like serious Boot Camp. The other Book I mentioned 'My First Simandl' is more like Sneaker Camp..

Still, it's a serious matter learning the Bass...
Well Ken, on that we are in total agreement.

Off the topic:I've just started working up my walking speed for a possible gypsy jazz gig. I've taken it up to crotchet = 288, so a wee way to go yet. Those gypsies like the fast times so I thought I'd better get prepared.
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Old 04-17-2007, 11:51 AM
Chris Rapadas Chris Rapadas is offline
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Default Now,I see!

Now, I know what all the hub bub is about!The DB is an untamed beast!I have My 1/2 size Lidl and after an intense setup that included screws(I'll save that for a new thread in the Luthier forum with, big gnarly full size pics,elitist,..run!)I am hooked!

For now I can only play pizz,the only bow I have is for violin. It took awhile to carve My bridge to a playable setup and, I learned alot about the machine that is a DB.I mean,such small adjustments have,such a huge impact on tone and volume.Anyway,I can pretty much play anything I can play on electric on this thing(a bit slower on some stuff)and,can already play some stuff like,Big in Japan(T. Waits),Walk on the wild side,ya know fun easy stuff.

Now,I'm not assuming for one minute that any of this is proper,I notice I keep wanting to grip the neck like a hammer.I never even do that on EB My thumb is always anchored to the back of the neck.Also,I can see how a bigger bass would suit Me as,i feel I hunch over to find a comfy position.

For now,I'm in I love this instrument and,cant wait to find a teacher.I am also going to sell off a couple of EB to fund a new 3/4 size bass.I hope to have a budget of around $2,000 so,any recommendations in that department would be great!

Feel free to school this newbie,thats why I'm here!Thanks in advance!.......Chris
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Old 05-04-2007, 03:53 PM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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What's the latest on that double bass playing Chris?
Any luck getting a bow?
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Old 05-04-2007, 08:35 PM
Chris Rapadas Chris Rapadas is offline
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Default Hey!

Richard,The DB is coming along great!Thanks for asking!I'm still messing around with the setup but,the playing is going great.I have not been able to get a good bow yet but,I am practicing w/my violin bow.Soon,I will be getting a decent bow and,the books that you guys recommended(My first Simandl.).

I am really looking forward to this learning experience.I really want to get into the arco stuff as,it seems I really am drawn to the notes when bowed like,that is the sound of a Bass that,is the sound I've always heard in My head.

I'm still looking for a teacher though.I will keep you guys posted and,I will be putting some pictures together for,a thread documenting the whole crazy fiasco of getting this bass to play(I'm sure it will be very entertaining).Till then,FEEL FREE TO LET ME KNOW ALL THE BAD HABITS YOU KNOW I'M PICKING UP FROM NOT HAVING A TEACHER!!Oh yeah,I'm looking for 3/4 so,any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!!
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Old 05-04-2007, 11:44 PM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Good on you Chris. I don't know about that violin bow though. Pity you're not near as I'd lend you a student bow. The best thing you can do is check out other arco players (youtube is good for this). Check their posture.
It's exciting that you're doing this.
Keep us posted.
Richard
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Old 05-05-2007, 12:23 PM
Chris Rapadas Chris Rapadas is offline
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Default Bow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Prowse View Post
Good on you Chris. I don't know about that violin bow though. Pity you're not near as I'd lend you a student bow. The best thing you can do is check out other arco players (youtube is good for this). Check their posture.
It's exciting that you're doing this.
Keep us posted.
Richard

O.k.,I'm looking for a bow.I have a few questions for y'all.First,German or French?Also,since I will be bowing a 1/2 size bass should I buy a 1/2 size bow?My thinking is I should buy a 3/4,4/4 bow since I will soon be making the transition to 3/4.

Richard,I wish I lived near as well.You are very kind.Someday I hope to show My kids that part of the world(soon I hope!They are almost grown!).Anyway any help in this department would be great.

BTW I am considering this:


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Old 05-05-2007, 04:30 PM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Default German or French.

German or French? There is really no answer to this question.
Fans of both bows will give you good arguments.
The French is probably better for string crossing and German probably gives you a bigger tone. I've used both and really would be happy to use either. I changed to German about 3 - 4 years ago because of a hand injury. I have put a lot of work into this bow and love it. I personally prefer the tone I get with this bow, which I hear as 'darker'. I am now a definite German fan and wouldn't want to go back... I used a French in a shop a few weeks back and it felt a little unfamiliar, but I'd soon adjust again, except for the old injury. I love Edgar Meyer's playing with the French.
I think that you should definitely get a full size bow, as you will be getting a bigger bass. I drive an old car, but I still put new tyres on it! (What a silly comparison!)
The bow in the picture looks fine to me, but I am definitely no expert... I hope Ken takes a look for you.
I hope you make it to NZ some time soon. An afternoon or six of bass playing would have to be on the agenda.
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Old 05-13-2007, 07:55 PM
Chris Rapadas Chris Rapadas is offline
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Default I won a bow.

I just won a Albert Nurnberger bow.I was just seeing what I could get instead of a no name Chinese one.I came across this- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...8002&rd=1&rd=1

Anybody know anything about these?From what I can gather I may have done well.I also realize this bass was listed with an inaccurate description .I have watched this seller for some time and, believe the bows he is selling are ligit.The Sartory violin bows he sometimes sells are just like mine.What do you all think?
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