9-1-1, 9-1-1, 9-1-1, Luthier on the loose..

[Adrian Levi]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Ok, show me a bass that had its pedigree proved by carbon dating, please.

Even if you find DNA from the actual maker, maybe he only touched it. Dating only proves the age of the wood and within a given range. It does not prove who made it or when.

Also, in this country, ignorance is no excuse for the Law. Intention may increase the degree of the charges but theft is theft.

I was thinking that even with expert opinion and the such , maybe it would be possible to carbon date a finish perhaps , just to add to the authenticity / I'm no expert on carbon dating but was under the impression that it was pretty damn accurate !
How often have you seen players with basses that are not what they think they are because they were duped, and have you seen fakes coming out of any of the better known retailers in the US ?
Also have you ever seen fakes that are almost visually like the real thing ?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Adrian Levi

How often have you seen players with basses that are not what they think they are because they were duped

I have seen a few of them. Usually they get them cheaper so they think they got a deal but still, they paid too much. One other sale happened awhile back and with 2 other appraisals took them to court and won. It cost him $10k to get his money back. The bass was well over 100k. The fake job was quite good to the naked eye.

and have you seen fakes coming out of any of the better known retailers in the US?

I have seen a few that in my opinion were not what they claimed to be, so yes as far as fakes. I have seen many more also from better known shops that were sold as something else like French or Italian that were actually German. They buyer thinks he's getting a deal but is actually paying top dollar retail and more.

Also have you ever seen fakes that are almost visually like the real thing?

I have seen a few that were harder to identify but unless they were used upside down or inside out or kept in the case for all its life the actual playing wear for basses that age was just not present. Taking them apart and scraping off the false oxidation stain inside will reveal the fresh wood.

Currently, Arnold has apart my old Italian Guitar shaped bass. No matter how much scraping he has done the dark oxidized color is IN the wood as deep as you go. This is true age.

[Adrian Levi]

Currently, Arnold has apart my old Italian Guitar shaped bass. No matter how much scraping he has done the dark oxidized color is IN the wood as deep as you go. This is true age.

I still think that Arnold should have your bass carbon dated asap

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Adrian Levi

I still think that Arnold should have your bass carbon dated asap

Even better. I have him making a Carbon COPY as we speak..

[Matthew Tucker]

Ken you are - for good reason - condemning cutting a scroll to install an extension. But what about drilling the scroll to allow the C string through? That's removing original wood as well. You could say it's easy to plug a hole, but then, its not that complicated to restore a cut scroll either. There are ways to route the C string past the turns of the scroll and into the top of the pegbox. Not as elegant but it can be done.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Ken you are - for good reason - condemning cutting a scroll to install an extension. But what about drilling the scroll to allow the C string through? That's removing original wood as well. You could say it's easy to plug a hole, but then, its not that complicated to restore a cut scroll either. There are ways to route the C string past the turns of the scroll and into the top of the pegbox. Not as elegant but it can be done.

Yes Matt, you heard me right. The Hole is ok and works best. The cutting of the Scroll is a huge sin in my book. Many basses have holes already that wont work for the next extension. They get plugged and the next one drilled. I have bought many basses like that. The only bass I bought with the scroll cut was the Guitar model bass. That has a sound to die for. When it's all fixed, the repair will show only a little. The reason it was cut to begin with was because of a faulty angle scroll graft. I know who did what on that bass as well. The bass I walked away from was a nice bass but nothing like this one. I even played it in concert a few times with the cut there but it bothered me to no end. Now it is fixed and in its new neck already awaiting its mounting to the restored bass. That will happen before long. The Top is almost done and will be glued back on soon. Then the Back comes off and we are in the home stretch.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Many basses have holes already that wont work for the next extension. They get plugged and the next one drilled.

That's why i'm putting it to you that drilling a hole is NOT really OK in a master bass, any more than cutting the scroll is. A scroll full of plugged holes me no like!