Thinning a thick ?

[Adrian Levi]

Sticking to the general theme of 'wood removal' , I'm wondering what the effects on tone are when it comes to thinning down a thick neck . Also is it ever done to take fingerboard wood away to improve general timbre ( I dont mean fingerboard dressing ) ?

[Adrian Levi]

Topic was meant to have read / THINNING A THICK NECK ?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Adrian Levi

Sticking to the general theme of 'wood removal' , I'm wondering what the effects on tone are when it comes to thinning down a thick neck . Also is it ever done to take fingerboard wood away to improve general timbre ( I dont mean fingerboard dressing ) ?

For me, the neck must be comfortable and strong. On all major restorations I have a CF Graphite Bar/s put in for added strength. Then, a full thick fingerboard goes on.

Thick or thin necks or FBs do sound different. I don't think you can make a Bass that much better changing things here in the neck area. You can make THAT bass sound a little better or sized to your comfort but not everyone feels the same on what comfort is.

However, I have been told many times over that the basses I have here in stock are the best set-up feeling basses 'as a group' than any other shop they have been to. Why do I hear that? Because the necks are not thin or thick, the fingerboards are thick and well dressed and the necks are for the most part, reinforced. The right fb curve and the right bridge arch for easy bowing, good spacing at the bridge and nut, nut height near zero under the strings, camber about 1mm or so, the right neck to body angle, overstand, tailpiece to bridge angle, etc, etc, etc.. all part of what makes a bass feel and play good.. besides a good bass.

[Adrian Levi]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

For me, the neck must be comfortable and strong. On all major restorations I have a CF Graphite Bar/s put in for added strength. Then, a full thick fingerboard goes on.

Thick or thin necks or FBs do sound different. I don't think you can make a Bass that much better changing things here in the neck area. You can make THAT bass sound a little better or sized to your comfort but not everyone feels the same on what comfort is.

However, I have been told many times over that the basses I have here in stock are the best set-up feeling basses 'as a group' than any other shop they have been to. Why do I hear that? Because the necks are not thin or thick, the fingerboards are thick and well dressed and the necks are for the most part, reinforced. The right fb curve and the right bridge arch for easy bowing, good spacing at the bridge and nut, nut height near zero under the strings, camber about 1mm or so, the right neck to body angle, overstand, tailpiece to bridge angle, etc, etc, etc.. all part of what makes a bass feel and play good.. besides a good bass.

Thats interesting about the graphite bar ! Do you ever consider using light tuners for sound improvement or would you consider it overkill ? Some say that the lighter tuners and or wooden string pegs have a positive impact on sound .... but I guess perhaps thats bordering the obsessive !

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Adrian Levi

Thats interesting about the graphite bar ! Do you ever consider using light tuners for sound improvement or would you consider it overkill ? Some say that the lighter tuners and or wooden string pegs have a positive impact on sound .... but I guess perhaps thats bordering the obsessive !

When you have basses like I do in the top of my collection which are the main ones I use personally, Tuners to me are hardware, NOT tone enhancers. If your tuners are paper, then they wont work. If they are a pound of lead, they will hurt the sound. Other than that, as long as they work well and look nice on the bass combined, they are the tuners for that bass for ITS LIFE with me!

With some basses, people think they can change a dozen things and turn a factory bass into a Montagnana (a great and expensive Italian bass, if you can find one. Only a few known in the world). Guess what? If you want the sound of a Montagnana, buy one! Changing all the parts wont help all that much.

I think that going moderate all around with set-up issues (not too light and not to heavy) you will get out of the bass what the bass can deliver by how it's made and within the condition it's in.

Sometimes the time, effort and expense might be better spent on shopping for a different bass. Too much money and time is wasted tying to get out of a bass what will never be there. If the components on your bass are junk, then improvements are possible. If so, is the bass any good to begin with? Is it worth the trouble to upgrade parts or, was it better in the long run to have gotten a different bass?

I often tell people to leave it alone, save up your money, sell the bass you don't like, and get one that you do like. Usually, only the guys selling the parts win. Like the Lawyers in a lawsuit. The lawyers do well and have lunch together while the people suing or getting sued usually suffer in the long run.

Make good decisions to start with. That will save you money in the long run..

[Thomas Erickson]

I've wondered from time to time - with graphite in the neck, what happens when the bass takes a hit that otherwise would have broken the neck? What's the next-in-line for destruction?

As for thinning a neck - I think it's most often done when people think a smaller neck will somehow be easier to play or more suitable for a small person. IMO in most cases it's just a technique issue and the instrument is the scapegoat.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Thomas Erickson

I've wondered from time to time - with graphite in the neck, what happens when the bass takes a hit that otherwise would have broken the neck? What's the next-in-line for destruction?

As for thinning a neck - I think it's most often done when people think a smaller neck will somehow be easier to play or more suitable for a small person. IMO in most cases it's just a technique issue and the instrument is the scapegoat.

A bass neck usually breaks at its weakest point. That would be just under the scroll at the end of the fingerboard for the most part. Graphite wont help as it's IN the neck and not at the break point.

On thin necks, we have to look at playing the bass and not gripping it like a bat. Thinner necks are weaker. They bend forward from the string pull and pull the fingerboard with it creating the effect of extra camber under the strings when in fact it's really a weak neck. Extra camber makes the string tension feel tighter and harder to play. In this case, a stronger and thicker neck would be easier to play because it bends less and holds its intended camber better. The graphite allows you to have a normal thicknesses neck but stiffer in resistance. Remember, to put graphite in, you have to take wood out.

I started putting graphite in the Smith basses in 1980. Having played thousands of thinner/longer/weaker Electric basses in my shop with graphite inlaid neck I can tell you what it does. We/I also have a special technique of putting it in which I cannot share. Also, our rods are custom
made to order and not off the shelf of from a catalog.

Graphite CF will help a well made neck. In our usage, it is not intended to correct bad neck, only improve a good one.

[Thomas Erickson]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

A bass neck usually breaks at its weakest point. That would be just under the scroll at the end of the fingerboard for the most part. Graphite wont help as it's IN the neck and not at the break point.

The two basses that I have seen that received a hit (after a rod was installed) enough to do damage, one the neck had a small crack, the other came loose at the button and on the sides of the heel slightly-both were very minor repairs.

Seems to me like in the case of a good strong neck joint then that the brunt of an impact is going to be focused on the point of the neck where it's already weakest. Does anybody think that maybe a neck without graphite, one that can absorb and evenly distribute shock, might actually be safer in the case of an otherwise well made and healthy bass?

And as for the stiffness, if the neck is thick enough, isn't it going to be stiff enough to not deflect under tension

I don't mean to be negative about it or anything, I just tend to have my doubts about graphite being able to improve a nice thick neck made from good maple; I can certainly see how it would be nice in a bass guitar neck though!