bass bar types ?

[Adrian Levi]

I am interested in why it seems to be the norm to change an integral bass bass bar . Is it a structural issue or is it one to do with sound ?

I have heard basses with an integral bar that do sound very good though.Is it a wise idea to change these on , say a museum grade instrument ?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Adrian Levi

I am interested in why it seems to be the norm to change an integral bass bass bar . Is it a structural issue or is it one to do with sound ?

I have heard basses with an integral bar that do sound very good though.Is it a wise idea to change these on , say a museum grade instrument ?

I don't think you will find many museum grade instruments with integral bars in them. This was usually done to save time and money as time IS money in manufacturing.

What do you consider a museum grade instrument to be anyway?

The Bar runs at a slight angle to the grain of the Top. An Integral Bass IS the grain but a Lump left in shaped like a Bar.

This reminds me of a Joke I heard years ago when I played Bass in the Shows for the Stars at Westbury Music Fair in LI NY. I believe it was Shecky Green who said.. "Ma, why do you make the Chicken so greasy?" .. Mom answers in a thick heavy Jewish accent.. "Shecky, I never make Chicken! I just make a Pot of Grrrease and shape it like a Chicken!!"

So, an integral bar is NOT really a bass bar for the function it was intended. It just looks like a bar!

[Adrian Levi]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

I don't think you will find many museum grade instruments with integral bars in them. This was usually done to save time and money as time IS money in manufacturing.

What do you consider a museum grade instrument to be anyway?

The Bar runs at a slight angle to the grain of the Top. An Integral Bass IS the grain but a Lump left in shaped like a Bar.

This reminds me of a Joke I heard years ago when I played Bass in the Shows for the Stars at Westbury Music Fair in LI NY. I believe it was Shecky Green who said.. "Ma, why do you make the Chicken so greasy?" .. Mom answers in a thick heavy Jewish accent.. "Shecky, I never make Chicken! I just make a Pot of Grrrease and shape it like a Chicken!!"

So, an integral bar is NOT really a bass bar for the function it was intended. It just looks like a bar!

I guess in my mind a museum grade bass would be one made by one of the masters ie a Panormo / you'd know the names a lot better than me. I may be wrong but I did read somewhere that some Panormo basses had integral bars.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Adrian Levi

I guess in my mind a museum grade bass would be one made by one of the masters ie a Panormo / you'd know the names a lot better than me. I may be wrong but I did read somewhere that some Panormo basses had integral bars.

After 200 years and more I doubt there are enough basses still in original condition to come up with that conclusion. Panormo is noted for the high arching, angled back and 6mm thicknessing around the Top (or maybe the back as well) without the normal variation in graduations.

I think Basses without 'real' Bars were done either out of laziness, cheapness or ignorance. Maybe some early instruments as well before the knowledge of bass making was fully developed but a great maker like Panormo putting out basses with his known reputation didn't have a bassbar? News to me!

[Adrian Levi]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

After 200 years and more I doubt there are enough basses still in original condition to come up with that conclusion. Panormo is noted for the high arching, angled back and 6mm thicknessing around the Top (or maybe the back as well) without the normal variation in graduations.

I think Basses without 'real' Bars were done either out of laziness, cheapness or ignorance. Maybe some early instruments as well before the knowledge of bass making was fully developed but a great maker like Panormo putting out basses with his known reputation didn't have a bassbar? News to me!

Perhaps Shecky Green knows something about Panormo's without bass bars

[Matthew Tucker]

Ken, having carved a few tops now, I can't work out how an integral bass bar would be any less work than a "normal" bass bar. It would make graduating the top much harder,and it would be difficult to carve neatly, unless you are using a CNC machine, which those old guys were not. So I can't really see how cheapness, laziness or ignorance had anything to do with it.

As far as "museum" grade bass is concerned, I would say it should definitely be left original, because conservation is the purpose of a museum. However, if it's designed to be regularly played, then its not a Museum" grade instrument, and if the bass bar needs replacing, replace it.