Ken's Corner (Bass Forums Sponsored By KSB)

Go Back   Ken's Corner (Bass Forums Sponsored By KSB) > Electric Basses > Woods, Electronics, & Components

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-23-2013, 11:01 PM
Danny Hernandez's Avatar
Danny Hernandez Danny Hernandez is offline
Posting Member
 
Join Date: 11-03-2013
Location: Panamá
Posts: 34
Danny Hernandez is on a distinguished road
Question Fusion Elite wood combination

So it's about that time to start working on the purchase. This time I want to go all out and get something really special. Thinking of going with a Fusion Elite 6 Eboy Top, Walnut Back, Tiger maple core.

My questions is currently owning an BSR6EG Flamed Quilted Maple top & back, western maple core. Will the the walnut and Eboy top make a significant difference in sound from my current setup since basically they will have the same core? Or should I go with a different core?

By the way would like to thank KSB staff for making my dream come true! There are no words for how impressed I am with the high quality of craftsmanship involved in making this instrument. There's not a single flaw with the finished product! The neck dimensions are just perfect and I don't have big hands, it's a very fast neck and very playable specially in the sweet spot. I was concerned with the weight and overall size of the bass but it's just perfect we'll balanced. The sound is just amazing KSB sound and am sure as it ages it will get even better...

I think I got a little of topic but ....

Would like to get some feed back from you guys....

Thanks...
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-24-2013, 12:56 AM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 5,028
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Cool the core..

I hope others tune in with their ideas and opinions a swell on the core but I just wanted to give my 2c after just reading this.

I think that looks and sound (each for different reasons) Walnut is usually the best core with an Ebony top. In my opinion, the sound between laminated bodies on tehse basses (because of the thickness we use) mainly comes from the Top, not the core. The core might 'flavor' the top in one way or another helping the inherent tone of the Top or conflicting with it but it will not dominate it.

On the looks factor, the Top, back and Core is all from dark woods and the Maple laminates offset the layers the best. With a Maple core with the Ebony-Walnut T/B set, we would use mahogany for the laminates. Less of as contrast.

On the Tone, Maple absorbs more and Walnut reflects more, Core, top, Back or whatever. With the Ebony Top, you don't want to soften an already deep short toned response wood. The Walnut lets the mids of the Ebony ring out more rather than suppress them.

Now, here are a few things to think about in case you are questioning my ears or experience in sound of these woods. The most simple test I have done to show someone in the past is with a piece of maple and walnut about the same dimensions. Then, drop them on a cement floor, one at a time. The sound of the woods will speak for themselves. Apart from that, I have handled well over 6,000 Smith basses of various woods. Having somewhat of a memory (lol on the somewhat), I rely on what I hear. It helps to have been a professional musician and bassist for 20 years as well as work with double basses that do not rely on amplification for the reproduction of sound.

Now, if you tell me you want the bass to be deep and smooth sounding as opposed to bringing out the audible mids, then yes, the Maple core of one of the varieties would be the choice. As far as Mahogany core goes, it seems to be more of a passive component with the more then double the density top wood used. With Top woods that are softer like Quilted Maple or even Tiger Maple or Walnut, the Mahogany is closer in properties for the mixing of tone.

We have probably used all three basic core woods (various types of maple's, walnut's, mahogany's) with almost every type of top/back that we have offered over the years. This includes 3, 5 and 7pc laminated wings.

There was a period of time when most all basses had mahogany cores. With that, I was able to judge the tones of the various top woods being that all the other parts of the bass were the same species, neck and fingerboard woods included.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-24-2013, 10:52 AM
Desmund Nichols Desmund Nichols is offline
Posting Member
 
Join Date: 01-20-2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 151
Desmund Nichols is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Desmund Nichols
Default

As an owner of 3 Smith basses, I will say that the bass will sound completely different than your first one. It will have a more heavier low end.
__________________
Des
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-25-2013, 02:51 PM
Danny Hernandez's Avatar
Danny Hernandez Danny Hernandez is offline
Posting Member
 
Join Date: 11-03-2013
Location: Panamá
Posts: 34
Danny Hernandez is on a distinguished road
Default The Core

Thanks Ken for your clear clarification. I have looked online for some reference pictures of the side view of what it would look like dark Ebony top with Walnut back and core and the contracting laminates but have not been able to find such...

Could any of you post any pictures?

Thanks and Marry Christmas!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-25-2013, 05:06 PM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 5,028
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Lightbulb pics..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Hernandez View Post
Thanks Ken for your clear clarification. I have looked online for some reference pictures of the side view of what it would look like dark Ebony top with Walnut back and core and the contracting laminates but have not been able to find such...

Could any of you post any pictures?

Thanks and Marry Christmas!
Most of the pics on the website are old. I think that combination or dark tops and core with light laminated post-date the website BUT, I found a pic that is the direct opposite, light tops and core with dark laminates. So, until I can find something to show, look at this in the mean time and just imagine the opposite. http://www.kensmithbasses.com/woodpa...sternmaple.htm
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-25-2013, 05:23 PM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 5,028
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Arrow more pics..

In progress pics..

The bass on top here.

Unfinished body wings here, bottom of left pile.

Here's a bass here as well.

And several more I got off the KSB FB page;

pic/walnut-walnut, pic/cocobolo-walnut, pic/ebony-walnut, pic/ebony-walnut.

So, these are a few non-intended examples of a walnut core between dark tops/backs with maple laminates accenting the sandwich.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-26-2013, 06:00 PM
Danny Hernandez's Avatar
Danny Hernandez Danny Hernandez is offline
Posting Member
 
Join Date: 11-03-2013
Location: Panamá
Posts: 34
Danny Hernandez is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up Good Pics

Got it... Now as far as the Top Macassar Eboy, is there availability of High exhibition grade? Looking for 5A really dark with some streaking.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-26-2013, 09:57 PM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 5,028
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Hernandez View Post
Got it... Now as far as the Top Macassar Eboy, is there availability of High exhibition grade? Looking for 5A really dark with some streaking.
There are no grades.. Just Ebony. The pieces vary and what the look like after splitting open is different than the outside. We only cook em to order..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-28-2013, 02:14 AM
Danny Hernandez's Avatar
Danny Hernandez Danny Hernandez is offline
Posting Member
 
Join Date: 11-03-2013
Location: Panamá
Posts: 34
Danny Hernandez is on a distinguished road
Question Laminates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
On the looks factor, the Top, back and Core is all from dark woods and the Maple laminates offset the layers the best. With a Maple core with the Ebony-Walnut T/B set, we would use mahogany for the laminates. Less of as contrast. ..
Ken, going with the "6FEG" with the all dark woods combination my question is on the 7pc bodies having the extra 2 laminates would you used the lighter (maple) laminate against the dark T & B and a slight darker laminate against the Walnut? Sorry maybe dumb question but want to make sure am completely sure. I found this picture of a 5pc laminate Ebony T/B with Walnut core and the maple laminates and kind of maid me wonder

Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	529
Size:	101.3 KB
ID:	2906
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-28-2013, 02:52 AM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 5,028
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Hernandez View Post
Ken, going with the "6FEG" with the all dark woods combination my question is on the 7pc bodies having the extra 2 laminates would you used the lighter (maple) laminate against the dark T & B and a slight darker laminate against the Walnut? Sorry maybe dumb question but want to make sure am completely sure. I found this picture of a 5pc laminate Ebony T/B with Walnut core and the maple laminates and kind of maid me wonder

Attachment 2906
Not sure I know what you mean on that pic. It looks perfect. For a 7pc with dark cores and tops, the other color of laminate would be mahogany against the walnut. Less of a contrast. The dark on dark works better with the 5pc body if color contrast is your concern.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-28-2013, 08:30 AM
Danny Hernandez's Avatar
Danny Hernandez Danny Hernandez is offline
Posting Member
 
Join Date: 11-03-2013
Location: Panamá
Posts: 34
Danny Hernandez is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up The Pic is perfect!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
Not sure I know what you mean on that pic. It looks perfect. For a 7pc with dark cores and tops, the other color of laminate would be mahogany against the walnut. Less of a contrast. The dark on dark works better with the 5pc body if color contrast is your concern.
Like you stated the bass in the picture is completely perfect that's for sure!!! as I matter of fact its the look that am trying to achieve as with the sound we all know it will have the KSB sound!
My concern with the Ebony is that I would like a certain type of color and look and from what u explained it seems that it's kind of a picking a draw... What you pick is what I get.
Don't mean it to sound bad but I am going to purchase top of the Line KSB I would like to get a certain look. Am looking into actually visiting the facility in the next month or so as i have a to travel to Allentown PA for work for about a week or so and we can finalize the purchase.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-28-2013, 10:49 AM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 5,028
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Hernandez View Post
Like you stated the bass in the picture is completely perfect that's for sure!!! as I matter of fact its the look that am trying to achieve as with the sound we all know it will have the KSB sound!
My concern with the Ebony is that I would like a certain type of color and look and from what u explained it seems that it's kind of a picking a draw... What you pick is what I get.
Don't mean it to sound bad but I am going to purchase top of the Line KSB I would like to get a certain look. Am looking into actually visiting the facility in the next month or so as i have a to travel to Allentown PA for work for about a week or so and we can finalize the purchase.
Ok, you can see the woods we have then. Might take a few months to see all of it, maybe more, So we will be busy when you get here!..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-28-2013, 11:41 AM
Danny Hernandez's Avatar
Danny Hernandez Danny Hernandez is offline
Posting Member
 
Join Date: 11-03-2013
Location: Panamá
Posts: 34
Danny Hernandez is on a distinguished road
Lightbulb The private stack

I won't have a month to look at potential Tops, but am sure that you have a nice Private Stack of Ebony somewhere in the building that will make it much easier to choose from..

I will email you once I have the possible date of visit and also start working on the final number to get the built moving forward.

Thanks Ken!!!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-11-2018, 06:07 PM
Gerson Lazo Gerson Lazo is offline
Junior Posting Member
 
Join Date: 08-12-2016
Location: Boston
Posts: 12
Gerson Lazo is on a distinguished road
Default Core..

What would be the characteristics of Ebony Top/Back and Walnut Core and Ebony T/B with Mahogany core..?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-11-2018, 08:38 PM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 5,028
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerson Lazo View Post
What would be the characteristics of Ebony Top/Back and Walnut Core and Ebony T/B with Mahogany core..?
Not much difference as the Ebony will dominate the sound. Since every piece is different, there is no exact way to test it. Just by averages.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-11-2018, 10:16 PM
Gerson Lazo Gerson Lazo is offline
Junior Posting Member
 
Join Date: 08-12-2016
Location: Boston
Posts: 12
Gerson Lazo is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
Not much difference as the Ebony will dominate the sound. Since every piece is different, there is no exact way to test it. Just by averages.
by your experience which frequency spectrum would they enhance, between low mids and high mids if apply?

again, talking about mahogany or walnut core with ebony t/b...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-11-2018, 11:15 PM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 5,028
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerson Lazo View Post
by your experience which frequency spectrum would they enhance, between low mids and high mids if apply?

again, talking about mahogany or walnut core with ebony t/b...
Again, Not much difference as the Ebony will dominate the sound.

Think of a hot knife thru butter. The Mahogany is more of a filler and the brighter sound of the walnut might add some edge to the ebony.

Most of the sound reflection comes from the Top.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-11-2018, 11:19 PM
Gerson Lazo Gerson Lazo is offline
Junior Posting Member
 
Join Date: 08-12-2016
Location: Boston
Posts: 12
Gerson Lazo is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
Again, Not much difference as the Ebony will dominate the sound.

Think of a hot knife thru butter. The Mahogany is more of a filler and the brighter sound of the walnut might add some edge to the ebony.

Most of the sound reflection comes from the Top.
Thank you Ken,

You have a good night,
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2007 - Ken Smith Basses, LTD. (All Rights Reserved)