Shen hybrid basses

[Matt Power]

Does anyone here have experience with the Shen Hybrid basses? I've seen folks here that are positive about the Willows, but I haven't seen anything on the hybrids. Their 180 model has nice veneers, with a carved top. A guy who I repect greatly, Jon Peterson from World of Strings in Long Beach recommended them highly, and was curious if anyone here has played either the 150 (no veneers) or the 180 (with veneers).

Thanks!!

[Aren Winebrenner]

I used to have a 180. It was a very nice student bass. In my opinion, it outperformed most entry level, fully carved basses that I put it up against when I was shopping.

[Matt Power]

Update!
I have since bought a Shen Willow bass from Steve Swan in Sacremento. Really a very nice bass that spoke evenly, and had a comfortable mensure (41 1/4). I played that bass for 9 months or so, and have since sold it and picked up a bass that surprised me when I first played it. Shen came out with a new model recently, and it is based on their Rogeri model. They call it the 190. I checked it out pretty thoroughly before I bought it, and am convinced it is a much bigger sounding and more complex sounding bass than the Shen Willow. Nice spruce for the top, solid willow sides, and a maple flat back. I picked it up from my setup guy a few weeks ago, and I am really excited about how great this bass sounds as a new bass. HUGE! I can't wait to hear how it develops over time. Sounds much better than one would expect, given the price. Very complex tone with a bow, and reminds me of the old Pollman I owned in grad school, but this bass responds quicker, and projects better than the Pollman did. Sounds outstanding for jazz pizz work, and amplifies nicely.

I also checked out their high end bass, the Panormo bass. Lovely instrument, nice woods. 12 grand, though...! Spendy Chinese bass!

[Rick Auvil]

My Shen SB180 is a beauty! The sound is becoming juicier each month. I bought it from Nick Lloyd and I can't say enough about his set-up. I just called, told him the type of playing I do, and trusted him to set it up and ship it. Maybe it was just luck, but he hit the nail on the head!

I'm now considering a five-string and debating which Shen fiver to buy - Gemunder 7/8, or the new 190 hybrid. If anybody has done anything close to a "head-to-head" comparison between the two, please share your experience.

My major concern is the extremely variable western Pennsylvania weather and humidity conditions. I'm just thinking the hybrid will be easier to maintain.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Rick Auvil

My Shen SB180 is a beauty! The sound is becoming juicier each month. I bought it from Nick Lloyd and I can't say enough about his set-up. I just called, told him the type of playing I do, and trusted him to set it up and ship it. Maybe it was just luck, but he hit the nail on the head!

I'm now considering a five-string and debating which Shen fiver to buy - Gemunder 7/8, or the new 190 hybrid. If anybody has done anything close to a "head-to-head" comparison between the two, please share your experience.

My major concern is the extremely variable western Pennsylvania weather and humidity conditions. I'm just thinking the hybrid will be easier to maintain.

More than just 'easier to maintain' I would be more concerned with the sound. Most 5 string basses just have 5 strings. Some though do have a decent sound on the low end. Playing a 5er on the other hand is not as easy as it sounds. I have owned a few. Converted one from 5 to 4 and one from 4 to 5.

For Orchestra playing you would be better off with a good 4-string bass and a handmade custom chromatic c-extension. Sometimes there is nothing to play below the E. Other times, you have a few notes here and there which are no big deal.

I debated this quite a bit and have done just about everything there is in regards to different basses as well as d-tuning a regular 4. With the 5er, when you don't need the B, it's in the way. Most basses unless that are 4/4-5/4 size have the strings pushed closer together with 25-26mm spacing. To play a 5er you need at least 27-28mm to play the low B and E. The E is more of a middle string now and musically gets way way more play then the B will ever. Also, the Fingerboard needs a huge round arch to play and bow comfortable. That round arch is more work on the left hand as well.

In Europe, 5ers rule. Here in the States, 5ers are rare. I sold 2 in the last few years, both of which I used briefly in the Orchestra and I have one in set-up now as we speak. For me, the 5er is a once in awhile instrument to play when I get bored and it's a 'minor' concert relatively speaking. On rare occasions the piece is easier to play on the 5er than the extension but in the majority of the music above the E, the set-up and 5-strings are just not happening.

You want something with 5-strings and a good sound on the low B, get a BIG bass. Anything less will be a toy.

On the Shen's they used to make a Maple back/rib model with a roundback in the 3/4 and 7/8 on the Gemunder pattern. This by the way is really Gemunder or G.&Sons Imported German basses. The Gemunders made by hand and all original look either Italian if by August Snr. or French if by George Snr. Both models made in or around Springfield Mass. before they moved to NY. The Shen model is off of the 'labeled' import that the Gemunders 'sold'. I have the 3/4 sitting here with me now from 1997. Since then I have seen a few Gemunders that were about the same model. I have also seen the older Mass. made Gemunder basses by both brothers and the difference is night and day. Made here by them or imported and labeled. Clear as day once you know what you are looking at.

For your choice if that's all that's on the menu, the Shen 7/8. The bigger the better for the low slow air of a 5er B.

[Wyatt Newman]

This coming week I will be driving 600 miles and deciding between the SB150, the SB180, The SB190 or the 3/4 Willow. The first three are hybrids, and the last two are flatbacks. I have had no experience with flatbacks, but have read several pro and several con comments about them on the boards. I am playing light classical with 80% or better arco work, and the bass will be setup with this in mind. Of course I will be playing all of them at which time I will decide what does best for me, but any thoughts from you guys will be factored in.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Wyatt Newman

This coming week I will be driving 600 miles and deciding between the SB150, the SB180, The SB190 or the 3/4 Willow. The first three are hybrids, and the last two are flatbacks. I have had no experience with flatbacks, but have read several pro and several con comments about them on the boards. I am playing light classical with 80% or better arco work, and the bass will be setup with this in mind. Of course I will be playing all of them at which time I will decide what does best for me, but any thoughts from you guys will be factored in.

Driving 600 miles to where? I think the Shen Willow back has a slight arch and an X-brace system. The Willow as well might be more stable and deeper sounding than Maple. For a lower priced Orchestra bass this model usually deliverers.

Call CSC and ask them if any what reported problems they have heard about with these Willows. Not a weeping Willow as far as what I have heard..

[Wyatt Newman]

Thanks, Ken.

The 600 miles are from my home to Nick Lloyds shop by way of Dustin Williams shop in Nashville. I've heard good things about both of these guys, especially Nicks setup, but just do not trust myself to buy anything without trying it first. Therefore the 600 miles. Each way.
I had not thought of calling CSC themselves to ask questions about the bass, but I will do so tomorrow. Again, thanks for your time.

[Eric Swanson]

I am currently renting a Shen SB 150 hybrid. Its a tremendous instrument for the money, IMHO.

Even response, nicely made, well set-up, light in weight. E string speaks easily.

It is a much better bass than the inexpensive carved bass I was previously playing, IMHO, playing them both daily. I would say that from a playing point of view, it is a tremendous bargain. I paid more than twice what the Shen costs for the inexpensive carved bass, for an instrument that didn't work as well.

Luthiers I have spoken with seem to feel good about the fabrication of the Shens, in general. As far as long-term physical issues, I couldn't say.

I have Belcantos on it. The bass works quite well. This is from the perspective of a part-time, hobbyist bassist; take it for what its worth...

[Wyatt Newman]

I have corresponded with Steve Sprague at CSC a couple of times in the last few days concerning the stability of the Shen Willow flatbacks. He has noted that they had expected more problems with cracking than they have received and some time ago had experimented with X bracing lenths and placement until they feel that the construction is optimum to prevent this problem. He warns though, that sudden and sharp temperature extremes should be avoided and that dry winter conditions with low humidity would necessitate the use of dampits. I have a question about that.
I live in the deep and humid south. Our winters are dry sometimes. For you guys in the know, what percentage would be considered "low" humidity conditions?

[Eric Hochberg]

I've been advised to keep the bass' home environment at 38% humidity when the heat goes on in Chicago. Of course, you have little control over other environments. I use dampits when the bass is in its bag on the way to gigs.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Wyatt Newman

I have corresponded with Steve Sprague at CSC a couple of times in the last few days concerning the stability of the Shen Willow flatbacks. He has noted that they had expected more problems with cracking than they have received and some time ago had experimented with X bracing lengths and placement until they feel that the construction is optimum to prevent this problem. He warns though, that sudden and sharp temperature extremes should be avoided and that dry winter conditions with low humidity would necessitate the use of dampits. I have a question about that.
I live in the deep and humid south. Our winters are dry sometimes. For you guys in the know, what percentage would be considered "low" humidity conditions?

Steve or is it John Sprague? John is a member her as well but doesn't Post all that much.

Dampits can cause more harm than help. Search this Dampit subject over here or start a new thread in the Luthier section.

[Wyatt Newman]

JOHN Sprague is correct. Don't know where Steve came from. Ended up getting the SB200 (3/4 Willow) from Nick Lloyd. Good guy, great setup.
Pictures attached.