A sort of Ken Burns question

[David Powell]

I have a question for Paul, which I know is going to be answerable in general that there is a lot of overlap and differing opinions but here goes:
One of the ensembles I play in is billed as a jazz ensemble. Apparently jazz is a lot of different things to different ears. Recently we were asked to incorporate "Moon River", "Chatanooga Choo-Choo", "Sentimental Journey", and some tunes like those into our list for that client's party. We obliged of course because the gig paid well, but our varied repertoire includes mostly Real Book tunes that I consider jazz standards like Satin Doll, Gee Baby Ain't I Good, Footprints, Shine, Limehouse Blues, Caravan, All Blues, Angel Eyes, etc. I know in just what I've listed we cross some sub genres already. So the question is what really are the sub genres of jazz and what characterizes them and what is definitely not jazz, but just a pop tune from the "jazz era"?

[Paul Warburton]

Hey David. I've heard just aabout every tune in the world done with a jazz feel. Take Bill Evans version of ' Little Lulu ' from the old comic strip.
I think rather than being concerned about what is jazz, or what isn't, try to use your heart and imagination and forget the genre labels.
Good question though man!

[Sam Sherry]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

I think rather than being concerned about what is jazz, or what isn't, try to use your heart and imagination and forget the genre labels.

Thank you again, maestro.

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

Thank you again, maestro.

Aww, bless you Sam!

[David Powell]

Thank you so much for the great answers! That is just what I wanted to hear, really;- that it is how you approach the tune and not the tune. BTW, Ken, I never knew that about Green Dolphin Street and I must have a dozen Jazz recordings of that tune. I have Greensleeves by Coleman Hawkins and also by Coltrane. Of course it is one of my favorite tunes whether it is in the traditional English waltzy folk style or Coltrane's style. And that really is consistent with your advice on Moon River, Ken. My guitarist suggested we put it into 4 so, I guess he is thinking along the lines you suggest. We did it in 3 at that party because we figured that was what the client preferred. It worked OK, but it wasn't quite our vibe. I really do love that tune also though. No one else wants to do it again, but I'm leaning toward working it out in 4 with the guitarist and seeing if we can bring it back at least as an instrumental. On a good day Johnny Mercer and Mancini can sure make a memorable tune.

[Robert Palmer]

What is 'jazz'? Well, it is a word definately! But, like the word 'book' it tells you very little about its content. There are several commentators (Marsalis and Crouch, for example) who are presented, by the media' as if they have a monopoly on the definition of the word 'jazz'. I hear words like 'Swing' and 'the Blues' but, whilst I accept the credibility of the arguments, don't have to look very far to find something that is 'jazz' that doesn't swing or contain any blue notes. I guess that any time anyone tries to draw a line around what jazz is, someone immediately steps over it. Does it Swing? Define swing and I'll tell you!! I agree it is in the performance of the piece but that is still a bit amorphus, isn't it?

Trad Jazz, Classic Jazz, Modern Jazz, Progressive Jazz, Orchestral Jazz, Jazz Funk, Jazz Rock, Acid Jazz, Free Jazz - the list is endless. Who decides what is and what isn't 'jazz'. Bottom line is, you do. As do I, as does Paul Warburton and Ken Smith and...... you get my point. There are 1000s of players the world over who think you can't play jazz on an electric bass! Tell that to Steve Swallow!

If you go and a listen to every cd ever discussed in Downbeat, Jazziz, Jazz Journal, Jazzwise etc then, in about 10 years, you will have your very own definition of what jazz is and then we can all disagree with you . In the meantime, enjoy the journey

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by David Powell

I have a question for Paul, which I know is going to be answerable in general that there is a lot of overlap and differing opinions but here goes:
One of the ensembles I play in is billed as a jazz ensemble. Apparently jazz is a lot of different things to different ears. Recently we were asked to incorporate "Moon River", "Chatanooga Choo-Choo", "Sentimental Journey", and some tunes like those into our list for that client's party. We obliged of course because the gig paid well, but our varied repertoire includes mostly Real Book tunes that I consider jazz standards like Satin Doll, Gee Baby Ain't I Good, Footprints, Shine, Limehouse Blues, Caravan, All Blues, Angel Eyes, etc. I know in just what I've listed we cross some sub genres already. So the question is what really are the sub genres of jazz and what characterizes them and what is definitely not jazz, but just a pop tune from the "jazz era"?

Taking a toon like Moon River and 'Jazzing it up' is not that hard. Just walk 4 thru the word Moon and 4 thru Riverrr... And you have your tempo. Not too fast, maybe Quarter note = 60 fpr slow and 90 for medium up-tempo. Chatanooga is harder to convert away from its already well known 40s swing tempo. I actually was the Bassist on the Columbia House re-issues of the Glen Miller Band recordings back around 1972 with leader Buddy DeFranco so I know that tune somewhat.

What makes a Jazz tune or not to the average 'Joe' is a tune that was made famous publicly as a Jazz tune like 'Green Dolphin Street' for instance. That song was actually a ballad from an old movie called "On Green Dolphin Street' which takes place in some Norwegian fishing village. Imagine being up at 3 or 4am and a late movie comes on as you're dozing off and you hear this slow tune that rings a bell. Then you look up and see the title flash across the screen and it's the same as a Jazz tune you've played all your life but never had a clue where it came from. Well, thanks for Jazz, that tune is now a Standard. If left to the movie, it would have been long forgotten.

So, if it swings, let it rip. I have heard some tunes that one would have never guessed in a decade would be used as a jazz tune. Oh, one other. Once on a Duo gig in NY at a sports bar the pianist starts playing 'Take me out to the Ball Game'. For real... This was done as a medium swing tempo. Now, this is one of the few tunes in the world I could actually sing but never in my life had played it much less knew the changes to it..lol... The short story, he never called me again for another gig.. Sensitive people...

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

http://www.stantonkessler.com/recordings/index.html
This guy has taken all the old TV theme songs we all know and love and done some interesting Jazz arrangements. 'Happy Trails' (not on the CD) opens with DB and guitar with the guitar pretty far outside. Is it Jazz? You better believe it.
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

[Richard Prowse]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

What makes a Jazz tune or not to the average 'Joe' is a tune that was made famous publicly as a Jazz tune like 'Green Dolphin Street' for instance. That song was actually a ballad from an old movie called "On Green Dolphin Street' which takes place in some Norwegian fishing village. Imagine being up at 3 or 4am and a late movie comes on as you're dozing off and you hear this slow tune that rings a bell. Then you look up and see the title flash across the screen and it's the same as a Jazz tune you've played all your life but never had a clue where it came from. Well, thanks for Jazz, that tune is now a Standard. If left to the movie, it would have been long forgotten.

I believe that the film 'On Green Dolphin Street' was actually shot in New Zealand.