"Cornerless Italian & Spanish Basses" - Page 5 - Ken's Corner (Bass Forums Sponsored By KSB)

Brian Glassman · #81 01-05-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Here's one I found from Italy, c.1840 but reported stolen in 2002;

Label Vincenzo Lucarini
Fecit in Faentae 1840

I do not think that is Dennis' bass. His is squatier shaped in the lower bouts and I belive he's had it longer than 2002.

BG

Ken Smith · #82 01-05-2008, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Glassman

I do not think that is Dennis' bass. His is squatier shaped in the lower bouts and I believe he's had it longer than 2002.

BG

I agree. His Scroll/tuners look different as well as the Varnish color if that's the same Bass on his website..

My main reason for showing the other Bass was to get a better look at one from that maker that I found on the net.

Charlie Hack · #83 02-04-2008, 08:29 PM

Wow...

I posted the original question about cornerless basses a while back, and I've just logged in for the first time in a while. This thread has grown into a wealth of information. Fascinating stuff. Just goes to show what a great resource the internet is for communication and research. When a bunch of bass geeks... I mean enthusiasts... pool their information, we get this. Awesome!

Cheers all,

Charlie

Ken Smith · #84 02-04-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hack

Wow...

I posted the original question about cornerless basses a while back, and I've just logged in for the first time in a while. This thread has grown into a wealth of information. Fascinating stuff. Just goes to show what a great resource the internet is for communication and research. When a bunch of bass geeks... I mean enthusiasts... pool their information, we get this. Awesome!

Cheers all,

Charlie

Yes, you started this first thread about 10 days earlier than my thread here on the Italians. I wanted to have a specific one about the old Italians where it all started and then included the Spanish in the title as they too started using this shape later on. Both Threads talk about the Italians but your talks about old and new regardless of where they are being made. TalkBass has one as well on Guitar and Pear Shaped Basses started by you as well. So tell me, which Forum gave you the most info on the subject?

Now I have two cornerless Basses but both are going into some long term restorations soon so it will be a year or more before I have either of them back. Jeff is doing the Storioni and Arnold is doing the one I acquired recently. Playing them first hand, I can really see how they vibrate differently than cornered Basses.

Matthew Tucker · #85 02-10-2008, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

... and Arnold is doing the one I acquired recently.

?? Which one would that be, then??

Ken Smith · #86 02-10-2008, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

?? Which one would that be, then??

Well, it's another Italian Bass. Arnold and I have decided not to show it or market it till after the Bass is fully restored and ready to play.

My website is full of Basses in restoration so leaving out 1 or 2 won't hurt. For now, it's just another old Bass that can't be played yet. I briefly tested it and it does sound good, real good. Playing it will only make it worse so it's off the market and out of sight for a year or so, possibly two.

Matthew Tucker · #87 02-10-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Well, it's another Italian Bass [...] Playing it will only make it worse so it's off the market and out of sight for a year or so, possibly two.

Well, I don't believe you. You're making it up. No way you have bought a second italian cornerless bass.

Ken Smith · #88 02-10-2008, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Well, I don't believe you. You're making it up. No way you have bought a second italian cornerless bass.

Ok, if you say so. The Back and one piece Ribs (no corner blocks) seem to be Walnut, I think. That's all I will say. Ask me in a year or so about it. By then I should have some sort of update on its progress. That's IF I actually did buy the Bass.

Basses are offered to me from time to time in various situations. If I like it and think it's a good candidate, then I might buy it. The list of Basses I turn down is way way bigger that the list of Basses I am interested to buy. Also, I can't afford to buy every Bass. The deal has to be 'just right' to appeal to me. Most of the Basses I buy need a lot of work right off the bat. Others can use some work if I want to get it in top playing condition. Last year I almost bought another small Cornerless Italian Bass in Italy but didn't push hard to get it. A local player bought it over there so it never made it across the pond.

Matthew Tucker · #89 02-17-2008, 05:13 PM

"Jordi Ruscada

Made in Barcelona, Spain, 2000
String length: 41 1/2"

An interesting Pear shaped instrument inspired by basses built in Catalunya between the 1840's and 1850's. Top is a book matched set of spruce, back and ribs are of plain maple.

found at http://zacharysmartin.com

Ken Smith · #90 02-17-2008, 06:18 PM

Yes, I know about that Bass BUT who are the Makers from Barcelona that made Basses like that? Show me one. The Makers in Spain ALL copied the Italians and J.B. Guillaumi Snr. (father and grandfather of Juan I and II) who is one of the earliest makers in Barcelona trained in Cremona.

I am still waiting to see a 'confirmed' Spanish Bass that looks anything like mine. Also, one with a similar grade of wood and workmanship as well.

The French copied the Italians as well. That doesn't mean every time you see a Violin you can point to a Violin style made in France in the 1850. That is a late period. Where did they get it from. Ah haa...

Speaking of... This design in the Back is actually French;

Anselm Hauke · #91 02-27-2008, 03:25 AM

hm...well...ok...not spanish...not italian...
but cornerless, hungarian, and cheap
http://cgi.ebay.de/5-Saitiger-Kontra...QQcmdZViewItem

Matthew Tucker · #92 02-28-2008, 07:13 AM

... and ugly! what's with the whacky ffs? Beurkh!

Ken Smith · #93 02-28-2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anselm Hauke

hm...well...ok...not spanish...not italian...
but cornerless, hungarian, and cheap
http://cgi.ebay.de/5-Saitiger-Kontra...QQcmdZViewItem

Well, Not Italian but it's the thought that counts. Figure that 'Cornerless' has been going on in Italy for about 500 years or so. Then we see it 200-300 years later coming out of Spain (that's just a guess). This just means that it's never too late for someone to start including the Hungarians.

With all the great fakes that have come out of Hungary in the last few years I am not surprised at all to see this. But those FFs.. YUCK! You are supposed to go to the Bar for a drink (or two) AFTER you finish work, not before.

Anselm Hauke · #94 11-03-2008, 06:20 AM

some pics and infos about a cornerless landolfi is here:http://www.xbass.org/en/taxonomy/term/54

(and also the baldantoni ken mentioned before)

Martin Sheridan · #95 11-06-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

Hi Ken,

I think you do nothing good by putting braces in the ribs of your cornerless bass. The 90 degree attachment will likely lead to rib cracks, just like at the corners of old basses where the rib shrinks and the block stays put. If you are concerned about a small rib crack developing into a "zipper" and traveling around the whole body, you can run some linen strips across the ribs about every 8-10" or so. Put them in with weak hide glue and run them up onto the linings, otherwise you'll cause a new stress point where the linen ends. My experience is that these strips remain a tiny bit flexible, and while they stop small cracks from spreading, they don't cause new ones. I have been using this technique in all my handmade basses. Old Martin guitars have similar strips I've been told.

Good input, Arnold. Stradivari, according to Saconni, used linen strips in his cellos. He said in the cellos where they had not been removed those cellos still had no rib cracks.
(Edit) I've been thinking about this, and although I agree with your logic, the addition of braces isn't that different from having corner blocks, is it? I made a Benedetto style archtop guitar a few years ago and although I didn't put them in that guitar Benedetto recommended them along with the linings. It might help add some stability? I do like the idea of the linen strips. I used them in my basses and cellos for awhile, but haven't done so lately.

Ken McKay · #96 11-08-2008, 09:22 AM

Linen linings in place on my cornerless bass.

Actually Martin, I did try some cross strips at first but took them out because I didn't like the feel. I think they made the sides too stiff. I had the ribs without mold and I could bonk them to assess their stiffness.

Just like Arnold, who advised me, I would advise you to forgo the wood and go with linen if anything.