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  #81  
Old 08-26-2011, 01:02 PM
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Cool neck angle?

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Originally Posted by Thomas Erickson View Post
What's the neck angle and bridge height like to get spacing that wide?
You mean in degrees? I don't know exactly but the Overstand is 30mm (1 3/16+") original, the String Spacing is 27.5mm (1 3/32") string to string, center to center and the Bridge height is 6 1/4" with the strings at the end of the fingerboard low at 4mm height on the G and 9mm on the E, the B is at 8mm off the FB. The FB is 4" wide at the end, 33 7/8" long and goes up to a 'B' at the end with a String Length of 41 3/4".

The spacing is wide and with the low string height, I can just barely clear the C-bouts on the outer strings with the Bow. If the spacing was narrower, the strings would be moved slightly inwards moving the outer string higher up on the bridge slightly for clearance as the overhang on the sides of the outer strings is playable but much less than a regular 4-string. Usually we see basses like this at 25-26mm spacing but with the wide board, why not go wider? The only improvement I could suggest is the neck being moved out to 35-40mm for the bridge to go higher off the Top to clear the Bouts better with still a low string height if desired. Still, I think I can play this bass and plan to try it at an Orchestra rehearsal or two in the least when the season starts.
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  #82  
Old 08-27-2011, 09:21 AM
Robert J Spear Robert J Spear is offline
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I'm going to have to punt on this one. I don't play enough anymore to have had experience with all the strings that are out there now. I can say that for the low B I would tend to favor a steel rope-core because they are brighter and usually punchier. It's a bit of work to get them going because of that construction, but usually passages where you'd need a low B aren't fast. A string that is warm and mellow just gets muddy on most basses. Pizz is difficult enough without the extra damping.
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  #83  
Old 08-27-2011, 11:04 AM
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Cool aren't fast?

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Originally Posted by Robert J Spear View Post
I'm going to have to punt on this one. I don't play enough anymore to have had experience with all the strings that are out there now. I can say that for the low B I would tend to favor a steel rope-core because they are brighter and usually punchier. It's a bit of work to get them going because of that construction, but usually passages where you'd need a low B aren't fast. A string that is warm and mellow just gets muddy on most basses. Pizz is difficult enough without the extra damping.
I agree with you on the string type but there are many many pieces with fast low passaged like in Shost. 5th, Beeth. 3rd, 5th, 6th.. and anything where the basses double the cellos. Many play the lines up an octave but I try and play it as written. For this I want a string that responds quick with the bow. Often the passage is mid tempo and jumps down for a note or two and you need it to grab or you are just playing behind the tempo.

I have used Perm B before but I was told that the current string Thom. Precision is a good 'B' but, it's as old as the bass. I need to but a new string so it's either that 'B' which has a solid core or a Perm. One bass I tried had Flex. 92s but the 'B' was a Jaegar blue/medium and played ok mixed with the 92s. Now that I have the Perm's on the bass which play well, I need a 'B' to match.
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  #84  
Old 08-28-2011, 09:32 AM
Robert J Spear Robert J Spear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
I agree with you on the string type but there are many, many pieces with fast low passaged like in Shost. 5th, Beeth. 3rd, 5th, 6th.. and anything where the basses double the cellos.
Those guys were seriously trying to see if bassists could take a joke. And I for sure would argue that Beethoven never intended the passage in the 6th to be played cleanly since it is meant to rumble and evoke a storm (one of which is passing overhead even as I write).

We will have to develop a bass that is intended for fifths tuning and that is fast enough to start bringing out these kinds of passages cleanly. That will surely mean another look at what an orchestra bass is supposed to sound like, how it should be played (yeah, I know; really well). This is currently where my head is at in bass development.

BTW, I saw a 5'er not along ago that had the low B string spacing very close to the E. Other strings were spaced about normally. The bridge was modified to get the B out of the way, so to speak. The player said that he needed the B from time to time, but not often enough to give it equal standing. I tried playing the bass (everyone else fled from the room), and the arrangement wasn't hard to get used to. I think somewhere in the forum someone else has already mentioned setting the bass up this way, but it was the first one I'd ever seen.

That's what I like about the bass world. Just when you think you've seen it all, you haven't.
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  #85  
Old 08-28-2011, 02:36 PM
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Cool 5ths, B spacings

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Originally Posted by Robert J Spear View Post
Those guys were seriously trying to see if bassists could take a joke. And I for sure would argue that Beethoven never intended the passage in the 6th to be played cleanly since it is meant to rumble and evoke a storm (one of which is passing overhead even as I write).

We will have to develop a bass that is intended for fifths tuning and that is fast enough to start bringing out these kinds of passages cleanly. That will surely mean another look at what an orchestra bass is supposed to sound like, how it should be played (yeah, I know; really well). This is currently where my head is at in bass development.

BTW, I saw a 5'er not along ago that had the low B string spacing very close to the E. Other strings were spaced about normally. The bridge was modified to get the B out of the way, so to speak. The player said that he needed the B from time to time, but not often enough to give it equal standing. I tried playing the bass (everyone else fled from the room), and the arrangement wasn't hard to get used to. I think somewhere in the forum someone else has already mentioned setting the bass up this way, but it was the first one I'd ever seen.

That's what I like about the bass world. Just when you think you've seen it all, you haven't.
They tried 5ths over a century or two ago in France and it failed when they heard the intonation as compared to playing in fourths. Why re-invent the wheel here. I tried 5ths for half a day and my mind was quite scrambled along with my tendons stretched and sore. I prefer under 42" string length with 4ths. I had one bass at 44 1/2" for a couple of years and it was no fun playing that length. Now it's down to 42" and much easier to play.

On the spacing and crowning for the B at the bridge, yes some bridges are cut like that for 5s but if you go and measure 100 bridges, the spacing from center to center in MMs, tell me how many are spaced evenly on even a 4 string. Most basses are not spaced perfectly, even to the eye. I can see the point of doing this to a B making it closer but it might be hard to jump down and not over reach for the B being closer not to mention hitting the C Bout with the bow hairs or the corner with the Frog.

What Beeth. meant to be played and what is required now is way way different. 3 or maybe 4 gut strings with high action playing the sextuplets in the 9th? lol.. in your dreams. That last page was like a pink slip. I think that's why those parts say Cello-Bass, same part. LOL.. Means "Lots Of Luck!" ... lol.. (the other meaning!)
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  #86  
Old 08-29-2011, 12:43 AM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
Also, this bass being a 3/4 Wilfer/Juzek style model (if not an actual Wilfer re-labeled) might be best utilized as a high 'C' 5er rather than an Orchestra 5er with Low 'B' but only time will tell. The bass IS fairly loud so I need to take it out to a rehearsal or two and see what she can do.
I've fooled around quite a bit with C strings over the years. The best C string I found was a Corelli (Forte - from memory). The most fun I had with C strings was playing solo pieces up a fourth (same fingering) but, apart from that, I've found them a bit of a waste of time. I mean, they only add a few inches to how high you can play. Still, those solo pieces, up a fourth, can really sing like a cello. Ah, but there again, I'm a double bass player - let the cellists do that stuff.
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  #87  
Old 08-29-2011, 12:56 AM
Steve Alcott Steve Alcott is offline
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Anybody ever try (on a 5 stringer) a high C string and a C extension?
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  #88  
Old 08-29-2011, 03:06 AM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Alcott View Post
Anybody ever try (on a 5 stringer) a high C string and a C extension?
Okay, I'm listening.
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  #89  
Old 08-29-2011, 03:27 AM
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Lightbulb High?

My quest if ONLY for a Low 'B' to match the Permanent set at the moment,
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  #90  
Old 08-29-2011, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
My quest if ONLY for a Low 'B' to match the Permanent set at the moment,
Ken,

I think the Perm B would be a good solution. I really like the low C, so I don't see why it would be much different.

You could also go with a spirocore, but it will sound better if it's old.

FWIW,
Brian
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  #91  
Old 08-30-2011, 06:13 PM
Alex Verbree Alex Verbree is offline
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If you've got the spare scratch, I'm sure a Genssler (sp?) string would be the best. aside from that, I think most 5ers I've heard of have a spiro low B because it's reliably loud and articulate.
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  #92  
Old 08-30-2011, 07:57 PM
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Cool oh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Verbree View Post
If you've got the spare scratch, I'm sure a Genssler (sp?) string would be the best. aside from that, I think most 5ers I've heard of have a spiro low B because it's reliably loud and articulate.
Those choices to match the sound and tension or a Permanent set already on the bass?

I have a Spiro solo Extension E/C on the my Claudot and the other 3 strings are Original Flexocors. It sounds good but not a perfect match. It does work however.
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  #93  
Old 08-31-2011, 10:40 AM
Robert J Spear Robert J Spear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Alcott View Post
Anybody ever try (on a 5 stringer) a high C string and a C extension?
Never saw anything like it. I have seen 5-stringers with a high C and a low E, and with a low B and a high G. It would be interesting to see (and hear) a 5-er with a C-extension on the low E. But, I think that would be quite a cumbersome rig to handle.
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  #94  
Old 08-31-2011, 11:53 AM
Eric Hochberg Eric Hochberg is offline
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Default Busan

I had a chance yesterday to briefly play Joe Guastefeste's Busan which is set up with five strings. The fingerboard is extended width over the neck on the B side and the bridge takes a dive from the E to B string putting the B somewhat out of the way. Beautiful bass.
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  #95  
Old 09-01-2011, 07:54 AM
Arnold Schnitzer Arnold Schnitzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
My quest if ONLY for a Low 'B' to match the Permanent set at the moment,
I like the Thomastic Superflexible B. It has bite, but it's not as bright as the Spiro.
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  #96  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:16 AM
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Question ok.. but..

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Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer View Post
I like the Thomastic Superflexible B. It has bite, but it's not as bright as the Spiro.
Where would you place the Permanent string in that group being that the other 4 are Perm's as well.

Oh, and I ordered the B yesterday with some other stock I needed.

Should be here today.
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  #97  
Old 09-02-2011, 08:43 AM
Arnold Schnitzer Arnold Schnitzer is offline
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Not sure I understand your question, Ken, but I used the Superflexible B with a full set of BelCantos. It sounded well-matched.
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  #98  
Old 09-02-2011, 11:58 AM
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Lightbulb w/Bels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer View Post
Not sure I understand your question, Ken, but I used the Superflexible B with a full set of BelCantos. It sounded well-matched.
Nice BUT, the strings on the Bass are Permanents and that's what I need to match up. I have the Perm B now but haven't had time to put it on yet.
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  #99  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:29 PM
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Thumbs up Perms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
Nice BUT, the strings on the Bass are Permanents and that's what I need to match up. I have the Perm B now but haven't had time to put it on yet.
I put the Perm B on shortly after my last post but. Then I re-cut the top of the bridge to clear the C-bouts better. Now, the bass plays tight but is playable and the Perm B works just find. I have one concert under my belt so far and a few more to play the 5er on before the season ends.
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  #100  
Old 11-21-2012, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
I put the Perm B on shortly after my last post but. Then I re-cut the top of the bridge to clear the C-bouts better. Now, the bass plays tight but is playable and the Perm B works just find. I have one concert under my belt so far and a few more to play the 5er on before the season ends.
The bass is slated to have the neck moved out from its original set. The luthier involved and I agree we need to do this so the string spacing is not limited to a narrow setting.

>>>>> The bass was sold about a year after it was modified. All is good here.

Last edited by Ken Smith; 06-16-2016 at 05:52 PM. Reason: Bass was sold..
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