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Old 05-01-2007, 07:06 AM
Jim Gullen Jim Gullen is offline
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Thumbs up A little perspective...

Good morning!

So there I was at rehearsal last night warming up when our principal walks in with a a different bass bag than usual. He pulls out a tiny little bass that I hadn't seen before. Turns out his had cracked a rib and this was his loaner.

At the break, he let me play this "loaner". It's an AMAZING bass. One of the nicest I've ever had the priviledge of playing. My principal tells me it's a Forester (Forster?) that was made in 1800 according to the label. I believe it. I'm a firm believer in "It's a poor carpenter that blames his tools", but this is one of those basses that makes anyone sound better.

I like playing on basses "up a few levels" from my Pfretzschner every once and a while, just to refresh that prototypical sound that we strive for. Man I got an earful last night!

Just thought I'd share, thanks for indulging me!

Best regards!
Jim
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Old 05-01-2007, 07:52 AM
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Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
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Question William Forster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Gullen View Post
Good morning!

So there I was at rehearsal last night warming up when our principal walks in with a a different bass bag than usual. He pulls out a tiny little bass that I hadn't seen before. Turns out his had cracked a rib and this was his loaner.

At the break, he let me play this "loaner". It's an AMAZING bass. One of the nicest I've ever had the priviledge of playing. My principal tells me it's a Forester (Forster?) that was made in 1800 according to the label. I believe it. I'm a firm believer in "It's a poor carpenter that blames his tools", but this is one of those basses that makes anyone sound better.

I like playing on basses "up a few levels" from my Pfretzschner every once and a while, just to refresh that prototypical sound that we strive for. Man I got an earful last night!

Just thought I'd share, thanks for indulging me!

Best regards!
Jim
Show the pics of the Bass please! There were only 4 Bass made that are known of. My Gilkes was made possibly outside the shop but while he worked for Forster. I do not know of any smaller Forster Basses that were made.
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Old 05-01-2007, 08:23 AM
Jim Gullen Jim Gullen is offline
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Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
Show the pics of the Bass please! There were only 4 Bass made that are known of. My Gilkes was made possibly outside the shop but while he worked for Forster. I do not know of any smaller Forster Basses that were made.

If the bass shows up at our next rehearsal (Saturday), I'll take a few pics. When I say the bass is "smaller" I really mean narrower. The mensure/overall length feels "standard" but the width/shape of the top looks like a big 'cello....to my eyes at least. Compared to your Gilkes, it looks more like a 'cello shape....the upper and lower bouts are about the same width, where your Gilkes has a wider bottom (gosh, don't tell her I typed that! ), assuming I'm remembering correctly.

The shoulders are quite tall ('cello shape) which coupled with the fingerboard solo extension, makes for an interesting set up! You really have to crawl up-and-over the bass (or stand on a phone book) to get up into the third octave!

I'll post back when I have more!

Best regards!
Jim

Last edited by Jim Gullen; 05-01-2007 at 08:26 AM. Reason: Adding a little more detail
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Old 05-01-2007, 08:40 AM
Arnold Schnitzer Arnold Schnitzer is offline
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About 10-12 years ago I brokered the sale of a "Forster" with cello shoulders, smallish 3/4 size. It went to a female member of the Pittburgh Symphony. I wonder if it's the same instrument...?
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Old 05-01-2007, 10:37 AM
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Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
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Lightbulb Cello Shape..

If you look carefully at my Gilkes page, you will see the 'cut' marks from when the shoulders were reduced from a full Cello shape. That was what they made back them before the Panormo model took effect. The Forster with narror Ribs and full Cello shape on WOB website in Germany is also attributed to Peter Wamsley by another US dealer. If the Forster is labeled, PLEASE tell me exactly what is written on the label. There were 3 Williams in London (II, III and IV). II worked first for the King and is the first generation Forster in London. III hired Gilkes to be his Cello maker and train his youngest son Simon Andrew. Gilkes also made several instruments with IV as the records from 1810-1811 say B&G meaning made by Bill (William IV) and Gilkes.

The Cello shape was made in London as well as in Germany and France in the early days. After all, the V.Cello was referred to as the Bass and our instrument known as the Double Bass by the part it played was often just a blow-up of a Cello. They didn't know better back then what we would soon need to get over the shoulders nor did they care from the looks of things.
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Old 05-01-2007, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer View Post
About 10-12 years ago I brokered the sale of a "Forster" with cello shoulders, smallish 3/4 size. It went to a female member of the Pittburgh Symphony. I wonder if it's the same instrument...?
Arnold, you got to be the most modest and underrated major Bass Dealer in the country. More great Basses have passed thru your shop than just about any other that I know of.

Also, you have so many Female clients as well. How does that sit with the wifey? .. ... Kidding... about the ladies that is..

The man has style. That's all I can say. Wait, I'm not done yet with that. Ok, ok.. one word at a time. Yes, I know Maestro, I hear you coaching me as I type.. He also has great patience. How do I know this? He puts up with me!!!
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Old 05-05-2007, 09:12 PM
Jim Gullen Jim Gullen is offline
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Default A little more info...

Greetings!

The "bad" news: The original Forster Label is not visible. But there is a restoration lablel from Steve Reiley (of Guarneri House). It refers to the bass as "in the style of Wm. Forster".

The good news is that the my principal spent some time talking with Steve about this particular bass. It turns out that it's a "hybrid". It had it's top replaced at some point. The new top was carved by Morris, who's basses are even more highly regarded than Forster, evidently. I didn't find Morris in Elgar, but I'm happy to believe Steve's opinion. Steve said that there is a Morris label on the top.

So, I apologize, Ken, for not being able to get you a good shot or reading of the original label.

Here are a few pics....not the highest quality.
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Old 05-06-2007, 12:20 AM
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Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
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Lightbulb Morris?

There is no Famous maker that I am aware of names Morris other that a writer/amateur maker named Rev. William Meredith Morris and some other unknown Morris also in the late 19th century.

Yes it is a Cello Shaped Bass but the style was done by a few. If fact it is written by S.A. Forster that they made 5 or 6 Basses, Cello shape for the trade/rentals that were un-purfled and of the lowest grade the shop put out. Shops back them made 2 or 3 grades of instruments to satisfy demand and to compete with commercial German and French instruments flooding the London market.

The pictures you posted are not very good either in clarity or resolution. Better pics would be nice but Riley's opinion is of merit to be noticed.

Also, Elgar is a very limited source for makers and many of the pics are wrongly attributed. Some even to the wrong country of maker!
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