Beethoven's 6th, Storm! (far from Perfect!)

[Ken Smith]

Hi guys, once again I am here to 'learn' from the pool of experienced Classical players as well as any others that feel like joining in the discussion.

My first Concert in October '07 will include Beeth. 6th. "The Storm" section moves quite quickly but my main problem/question here is the lower notes between the Low C and Low Eb below the 4-string range.

I am running thru it now with my Bisiach and its new Extension but as beautiful a job Jeff did I still think a 5-string Bass might be more practical. I would make a bet that in Europe, you would find just about everyone playing the notes down there in this piece would be using a 5er rather than a C-Ext. One hazard is see is tearing the skin off my left hand from the Tuner Gears on the G and D strings reaching across and moving up and down rapidly.

I was hoping to use my newly restored Hart Bass if it's done by then which is very possible and that will have one of Arnold's Extensions on it but looking at the speed of this 'Storm' I think the 5er might be a better call.

Pros and Cons as I can see it??

Pros:
1) The 5er has a huge sound and I wont have to play as hard to be heard.
2) The 5er is a 41 1/4" string length making it easier to play those fast runs shifting up and down in the Storm.
3) It is not even July yet and I have plenty of time to pick up my 5er from Arnold and start shedding it.

Cons:
1) The 5er has 1" spacing at the Bridge which makes it harder to avoid the neighboring strings as opposed to the 1 1/16" on the 4-string Bass.
2) The Bisiach and Hart are both 42" string length making is slightly longer and more difficult especially in the Lower and Sub Lower positions between the open C-Ext and 2nd Position.
3) The Low 'B' String is used only when needed making the E-String harder to play and confusing all around.
4) Playing the Ext. notes will be nearly impossible to reach and play in tune at the speed of the Storm not to mention dangerous for my knuckles.. 'ouch'!.. Mediccccc........

Ok now you Orchestra guys especially the ones from Europe and you know who you are, what do you suggest I do to pull this off and most importantly. WHY??

[Anselm Hauke]

Ken,

For me the question divides in two parts:

• What bass to use

i played with an extension only 2-3 times when I was bass-shopping outside of germany. We have hardly any basses with extensions here, only five-stringers. I´ve never seen an extension in a german proffesional orchestra.
A pic of my 5er is attached.
With this bass I played the LvB 6th severals times.

Regarding my limited comparisons I think it will be much more easy for you to use your hungarian 5-string bass, because the ways between the notes are much shorter, it´s much easier for the left hand to move 1-2 inch between the 5 strings than to move all along the extension.
Regarding the string spacing: it´s just a matter of practice I think, and maybe you´ll need less practice-time for this, than you would need for trying to play the semiquavers with the extension.

• What notes to play

I think the “storm” is a kind of special effect with the methods of the 19th century. To make it sound like a storm it´s not necessary for the bass-section to play all notes in time and tune.
The effect is achieved if the basses try to to this…
I´m not saying to fake it, I think it´s important to practice the part as best as you can (if the conductor let´s you play it alone, you know why…)
But if you listen to concerts of very good orchestras it always sounds a little bit more like “storm” than like a highly precise machinerie, and I think that’s what beethoven wanted.

[Ken Smith]

Thank you very much for that reinsurance.

Your Bass looks beautiful. Would you mind telling us a little about it as well as its sound with maybe some comparisons to other regular Basses.

Also, what exact Strings do you have on that bass now as well as what other Strings you have used or tried that worked or didn't work.

At the moment, I have a regular set of Flexocors (92s) on the G-E and a Permanent B-string. I tried mixing the Flex G&D with 3 Perms on the bottom as you can see on my web page but the Perms bowed slightly scratchy as compared to the Flexes on the A&E.

[Nick Hart]

Hey Ken -

For that storm passage, it's pretty much a widespread understanding that you just move your fingers as fast as you can and move your arm up and down the fingerboard. This passage is so loud and so quick that the actual notes are not of huge importance. Also, its more of painting a picture. You do not play a harmonic role here, the basses play an important part in creating a picture of a storm. I have several recordings of this and the only recording I've heard where you hear all the notes is Vienna.

Good Luck,
Nick

[Michael DiFebbo]

Originally Posted by Nick Hart

You do not play a harmonic role here, the basses play an important part in creating a picture of a storm.

It's an interesting effect. I'm looking at the score and there are passages (for example, at measure 21) where the basses have sixteenth note figures (F G Ab Bb) while the celli have sixteenth note quintuplets (F G Ab Bb C). These are not the specific passages that Ken was referring to, but nevertheless, it does seem pretty clear that Beethoven did not intend for these sections to sound perfectly clean, and indeed, on the two recordings that I have, they don't.

[Ken Smith]

Some 5s in Germany from my friend Sven-Henrik Gawron. The first Bass, a Rubner is very similar to Anselm's Bass.

Like Anselm's?; http://www.vektor-bass.de/rubner1957.htm




and this beauty as well; http://www.vektor-bass.de/bohem_5s.htm