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  #1  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:22 PM
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Thumbs up Interesting bass (and history reminder)

At first look, the bass looks fairly generic until, you look closer. The purfling, varnish and top wood used all seem superior and more interesting over any shop-type 20th century German or Czech bass. The interior work of this bass looks even more impressive. This one was made in Moravia which at the time was Czechoslovakia and now the Czech Republic. Imagine being born in one country and then it gets re-named and after you die, re-named again. It had just been re-distributed(?) politically from the Austrian Empire to the Austro-Hungarian Empire only a few years before he was born. I hope the bass doesn't loose its note memory as much as it's had its home name changed. The town is Brno, the former capitol of Moravia but the Germans call it Brunn. The maker, Josef Kreutzer just goes the other way and uses the Italian name Brunensis. He was a fan of the Italian work. Studying the origins of this town and its various ruling regions over the years is more European history than I had in all my years in school. Or at least, paid attention to!

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Old 10-04-2012, 10:34 PM
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Default Bass

You keeping this one ken? What's it sound like?
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  #3  
Old 10-04-2012, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Joshua Phelps View Post
You keeping this one ken? What's it sound like?
It sounds like a great bass made 60 years ago that needs to be played. It has some Pirastro Permanent strings that usually sound bright but sound great on this bass. It is loud, clear, deep and I feel it vibrating when I play it. I think it's a bass i can use. I just finished a basic set-up to test it but it still needs a few things to meet my personal requirements if I am to keep it for awhile to use.

I have several basses that I like and use so this one although nice and a rare pedigree, is just one that is joining the family of basses already in my racks.

This is the first time I have seen a bass from just north of Vienna with a round back and violin corners. This is more of an Italian Strad copy than anything from the German school. Most German basses in the last 100 years like this have outer linings as well. This one was made with a lot of thought. By the way, Vienna is closer to Brno than Philly is to NY so it should follow more the style of the Viennese I would think. I can only speculate that his working in Germany influenced his ideas as much as his study of Italian violins. The Scroll however looks typical western Bohemian/Saxon as do the Gears which look slightly modified from the norm.

I will probably bring this up to Arnold's shop sometime in the near future and see what he makes of it all.
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:09 PM
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Default Bass

I love violin corners & round back. Visually the bass is beautiful but I tend to like a darker varnish myself. What do you think of the lighter colored instruments like this one?
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  #5  
Old 10-05-2012, 04:22 PM
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Cool Varnishes

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Originally Posted by Joshua Phelps View Post
I love violin corners & round back. Visually the bass is beautiful but I tend to like a darker varnish myself. What do you think of the lighter colored instruments like this one?
It was a tradition that all better instruments were done with transparent amber varnish so as not to hide a single detail and to pass your masters test, it was a requirement. I have owned a few master grade instruments with various shades of amber and they were beautiful.

In researching Kreutzer's history, his teacher J. Werner came originally from Schonbach and trained there with V. Lutz whose brother made Double Basses. So, I can't say who made what for who from the earlier generations but Werner later headed up the Lidl firm in Brno as well. Kreutzer is also listed as one of the masters that passed thru Lidl so it was there I assume that he worked and trained with Werner.

Kruetzer seems to have had a rich life in violin culture working for firms, associations and shops from Zurich, Germany and Brno (Czech/Moravia) as well as being directly or indirectly associated with various Court makers from Vienna to Schonbach (Luby).

I am thankful for having spent good money on my collection of books. I hunted all of them down within the used market because they went out of print almost as fast as they were written. The Henley book unfortunately is limited when it comes to the vast majority of makers from the German, Czech, Moravian and Austrian schools. It seems only the majors and a few others get listed. I have two complete books for just these areas (German/Austrian makers and Bohemian/Moravian makers) and also another 2 book set of all the makers worldwide by Jalovec. The only two books I need to open my own Violin Library is one on Hungarian makers and one on the Spanish makers. At about $300 or so per book IF you can find them, it gets expensive. To list what I have already took hours and 4 books from Jalovec. The Henley book gave no additional information on the Brno/Moravian makers at all. I am still not done tracing all of each of the named makers/shops roots but the a nutshell, this guy Kruetzer didn't just crawl out of the woodwork. He crawled INTO it..
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:01 AM
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Default Knowledge

You are Always well educated on all the instruments you own & NOW I see why. The Internet is great but I miss the days when you had to go out in the world to seek knowledge & retrieve a book or seek out an individual that possessed the information you were after. The Internet is loaded with false information as well not like neatly packaged books that are either credible or not & if not then quickly written of by the community of whatever area of interests it contains.

Nice bass & neat to hear about the books.

On a side note it would be nice if you put up sounds clips or video with audio of the new basses you get. They are Simply eye candy for readers on the forum. It's like someone making a beautiful steak dinner then only allowing you to look at it w/o taking a bite haha
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  #7  
Old 10-06-2012, 11:36 AM
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Lightbulb no clips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Phelps View Post
You are Always well educated on all the instruments you own & NOW I see why. The Internet is great but I miss the days when you had to go out in the world to seek knowledge & retrieve a book or seek out an individual that possessed the information you were after. The Internet is loaded with false information as well not like neatly packaged books that are either credible or not & if not then quickly written of by the community of whatever area of interests it contains.

Nice bass & neat to hear about the books.

On a side note it would be nice if you put up sounds clips or video with audio of the new basses you get. They are Simply eye candy for readers on the forum. It's like someone making a beautiful steak dinner then only allowing you to look at it w/o taking a bite haha
You cannot tell from clips which basses rattle the walls or shake your guts inside because of compression used to fit the speakers. Listen to some Jazz records with big name players. Then go play their bass in person. You will be disappointed. It is studio magic and amplifiers that make some of those basses sound good on recordings and in concert, not the basses.

The smoothness or sweetness of a bass cannot be felt thru speakers. You are limited to what the speaker can do. You need to play the bass and hear it live.

The Kreutzer feels great inside my body when I play it. It goes thru me. I can feel it on my knee and stomach depending on how I hold it. That is what I look for in a bass. Not a recording that is doctored up or compressed to fit a speaker.

Several years ago when I first fit my pickup to the Martini bass I had, the speaker nearly broke when I played the A string and the E just distorted it totally. The true fundamental was too thick a signal for the speaker to handle. THAT is what I am talking about. It it amplifies well and easily, it's a thin sounding bass!
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:22 PM
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Default Db pickups

What type of pickups do you prefer for double bass?
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2012, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Joshua Phelps View Post
What type of pickups do you prefer for double bass?
I have been using a Shadow dual Piezo, similar to an underwood.
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  #10  
Old 10-13-2012, 02:55 PM
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Thumbs up USA debut, Moravia comes to Pennsylvania!

Ok, I took her out Wednesday (10/10/12) for an Orchestra rehearsal. The Principal there asked me to cover his spot because he was unavailable. There are from 6-8 basses in that Orchestra, this concert is 6. Although I just sit in the back there, the Principal felt there was no one in the section that could lead other than me and I am basically just a guest when I am available.

The bass was more powerful than I had imagined and the lower two strings, more than adequate. The bass has a set of Pirastro Permanents now that are usually too bright for my ears but sound nice n smooth on this bass. I will keep them on for now.

I think for a mid 20th century made bass, it is as nice as anything Italian that I have seen. This is basically a Strad model in a true sense of the art.

Now I need a name for the bass, a nick name. Joey maybe?
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  #11  
Old 10-13-2012, 04:19 PM
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Default Nickname

Basses are always Ladies according to the Italians. You can even see it in the shape of the Bass. Don't Break the Tradition of Lady Names Ken : )


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  #12  
Old 10-13-2012, 06:51 PM
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Wink Joey?

Joey can be a female as well. Look it up. The maker is Josef.

With the ballz this bass has, I think a unisex name might be the safe way to go!
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:02 PM
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Default Retraction

I retract my previous statement haha. Joeys a fine name then
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:39 PM
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I retract my previous statement haha. Joeys a fine name then
Well, it's getting a C-extension now along with a full set-up. This bass has a future being played in an orchestra setting.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:37 PM
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Thumbs up She's back...

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Well, it;s getting a C-extension now along with a full set-up. This bass has a future being played in an orchestra setting.
The Bass is back and all set-up now.

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  #16  
Old 12-17-2012, 09:56 PM
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Default Extension & setup

How does it play now? What's the lower clamp on the extension? D natural?
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:42 AM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Phelps View Post
How does it play now? What's the lower clamp on the extension? D natural?
It plays great. I had Passione's on the bass when I left it at the shop so I sent Arnold an old Eudoxa flat-chrome string for the extension. Today, I changed the strings, put Belcanto's on with a Flex.92-stark E/C. In doing so, I tweaked the Nut a bit to my liking and now it's ready to play.

The middle Capo is a D. The fingerboard was slightly thin when I got the bass and was a bit too flat. The board was dressed a bit and now plays even better than before. Due to the combination of the scroll/pegbox shape, the neck-graft angle between the neck and pegbox and the slightly thin fingerboard, the bracket for the Eb capo would not fit without cutting slightly into the cheek of the pegbox. So, I opted for just a plain E-capo extension. Then, Arnold suggested a D-capo and I agreed. I have played many parts that go down to D and C. Only on occasion have I had to lock the Db capo. The Eb capo is handy to have as well but close enough to the nut to finger as well.

I have owned 2 basses with just an E-capo in the past. One a few years back and one in the early '70s. This E/D/C Extension is the first like it I have had. I think it will work just fine. The season starts up in January right after the holidays and I will bring it to rehearsals as needed and give it my normal on-the-job test. I am sure it will work well.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:35 AM
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Default Extensions

I've never owned a bass with a extension but I always thought if I had one a plain c extension with only a E capo would be better for me rather than a chromatic in 2 ways, more cost effective & only 2 possible different open string notes. The bass & extension look great, I've been really wanting to play a bass Arnold setup as I haven't had the chance to.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:55 PM
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Ken, any particular reason you went for the "drill a hole through the scroll" instead of the "no-hole wrap-around" style extension?
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  #20  
Old 12-18-2012, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam Sherry View Post
Ken, any particular reason you went for the "drill a hole through the scroll" instead of the "no-hole wrap-around" style extension?
Yes, because it works well and is the standard excepted way. On my old Lion head bass, we will run the string thru the bottom of the ebony but using only a top wheel. That is a bit more work, but to preserve the Lion and the tongue in his mouth, it's worth the extra cost. Also, the string thru the scroll is less bulky as well. Bending the low B-string at sharper angles doesn't help the string life as much either. Especially when I like trying different sets and using the strings over and over on different basses.

At least we are not cutting scroll like many of the earlier luthiers did. It is so hard to repair those heads and make them look good unless you are fitting a new extension over it to hide the repair.
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