Bass with Lion head scroll. Need help Identifying it

[ChrisGodla]

There has been much debate on when and where the bass was made. There is only 1 label inside that I can see that says it was repaired in March of 1961 by Goltz and Mayne. My Grandfather owned the bass for over 60 years and got it from his dad prior to that. The bass has been in my family for like 70, 80 years. Many people claim it is German. Possibly from Mittenwalde late 1800's. But then I found out about Jakobus Stainer. He made instruments with the exact same lion face scrolls. It may be one of his or a copy of his work from later mittenwalde. Stainer died in like 1683. So I am very confused about this.

Ken, I would really appreciate some help from you. You seem to know what your talking about. That is why I had to post on here as well as Talkbass. I am in Chicago. I have an appointment to see a luthier tomorrow. Im hoping he tells me something. In the meantime, if there is anyone that would like to add thier input, please do. Thank you- Chris.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by ChrisGodla

There has been much debate on when and where the bass was made. There is only 1 label inside that I can see that says it was repaired in March of 1961 by Goltz and Mayne. My Grandfather owned the bass for over 60 years and got it from his dad prior to that. The bass has been in my family for like 70, 80 years. Many people claim it is German. Possibly from Mittenwalde late 1800's. But then I found out about Jakobus Stainer. He made instruments with the exact same lion face scrolls. It may be one of his or a copy of his work from later mittenwalde. Stainer died in like 1683. So I am very confused about this.

Ken, I would really appreciate some help from you. You seem to know what your talking about. That is why I had to post on here as well as Talkbass. I am in Chicago. I have an appointment to see a luthier tomorrow. Im hoping he tells me something. In the meantime, if there is anyone that would like to add their input, please do. Thank you- Chris.

Keep dreaming about Stainer. I have seen one head of his and one of Klotz. They were works of art. This bass you have is not, sorry. Your bass's trees may not have been planted yet when Stainer even died as well!

Heads like on yours are made on low cost Violins thru basses in Germany about a 100 years ago or so from what I have seen. Stainer Copies as far as labeled and markings were very common.

What I can't see so well is your Bass. A roundback Violin cornered bass with this lion on it? Doesn't match for me. Maybe the head was on another bass or the shop offered them in both Gamba and violin models as well. Many years ago I saw a bass with this head on it and asked what it was. "Just a German bass' the Luthier replied.

Watch Ebay in the Violins/strings. You will see heads like this from time to time. These are more like machine carved heads and not the beautiful French or Tirol lionheads I have seen in the past.

Your bass may be better than its head. I need to SEE the Bass. Straight shots with the lights on. Like the pics of my basses on my website. Just the facts as far as the angles. Boring shots that show me the bass. Show me everything there is to see, clear as day. http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/mittenwald/

[Calvin Marks]

As Ken said, lots of instruments from around 1900- are labeled Stainer but they're really just German shop instruments. I have a violin from my great grandfather which is also labeled Stainer but it was purchased in Germany from a shop new from around 1880.

Here are photos of the "Stainer" 1645, Absam bass.

http://www.musikland-tirol.at/images...tainerbass.jpg

http://www.musikland-tirol.at/musiki...ss-detail.html

As you can see, the level of quality in this bass is not exactly the same as your instrument. But that's okay.

[ChrisGodla]

So far, I have come across a few scrolls that have very similar lion head carvings. Does anyone know about any of these?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by ChrisGodla

So far, I have come across a few scrolls that have very similar lion head carvings. Does anyone know about any of these?

German factory made copies for the most part. That was the style of the cheap lion copy then.

[Thomas Erickson]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

German factory made copies for the most part. That was the style of the cheap lion copy then.

Were these all carved individually, or on some machine for the most part? Are they all identical?