Amp volume question

[Don Edge]

The instruments are drums (acoustic), guitar (acoustic or electric), and/or piano. I am using a 15 inch speaker with a tweater (nonadjustable). THe drummer is behind a shield but they may a) enclose him completely, which I don't like, or b) mike the drums so he can hit them less hard. He just put acrylic heads on them so they are louder. (BTW he player with George Straight and Waylon Jeninngs). He wants to be enclosed. My amp does an XLR output and I use it to go to the house. The board and system is all wrong and a sound guy is coming in. The church has 27 foot high ceilings, wood floors, a rock wall where the instruments and improperly installed sound deadening material on the side walls. It is a great echo chamber when no one is there. They are fixing the material on the sides. They are using peavey monitors (std looking and size). I am not in the monitors since I am plenty loud. The three of us sound really good togther and click. We just have to get the sound straight. Hope this helps. I was going to get an Eden WT 550 head and a decent cab but think that is serious overkill for that church. We have four house speakers on the ceiling that are chained. The sound engineer will be unchaining them for independent volume controls. That is also a volume issue. That is one reason I can not be in the house, I over power everything. Amp recommendations would be nice. I have a tendency to by good stuff and keep it, ie: my Pedulla. I do like versatility.

Don

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

The instruments are drums (acoustic), guitar (acoustic or electric), and/or piano. I am using a 15 inch speaker with a tweater (nonadjustable). THe drummer is behind a shield but they may a) enclose him completely, which I don't like, or b) mike the drums so he can hit them less hard. He just put acrylic heads on them so they are louder. (BTW he player with George Straight and Waylon Jeninngs). He wants to be enclosed.
Don

Having the drums enclosed and properly mic'd will certainly help control the stage volume, which should help you and others adjust accordingly. Under the current circumstances, this is a good thing.

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

I am using a 15 inch speaker with a tweater (nonadjustable).
Don

The 15 may be too much for your current set-up challenges. 12's and/or 10's could help you hear yourself better on stage. Have you tried getting your bass mix through your monitors? Once the drummer is completely enclosed, you should give this a try; at least in the interim, until your overall sound upgrades occur.

[Don Edge]

Wonderful...I got the 15 because I have tried 12's before and the B string just won't cut it. I haven't tried good 12s or 10s. That is one reason I was thinking of getting an amp head with a separate cab. I thought I may have better control with the head and say a 210 cab. ??

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

Wonderful...I got the 15 because I have tried 12's before and the B string just won't cut it. I haven't tried good 12s or 10s. That is one reason I was thinking of getting an amp head with a separate cab. I thought I may have better control with the head and say a 210 cab. ??

The Eden 210XST is designed with low-end in mind. With the WT-5550, the combination of the 210XST and 212XLT (8 ohm cabs) is likely all you would need for coverage in most rooms.

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

Wonderful...I got the 15 because I have tried 12's before and the B string just won't cut it. I haven't tried good 12s or 10s. That is one reason I was thinking of getting an amp head with a separate cab. I thought I may have better control with the head and say a 210 cab. ??

Also, it's not just the speaker size, but the quality of the speaker and cabinet design. There's alot of junk out there. It pays to spend the extra $'s and get quality equipment.

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

My amp does an XLR output and I use it to go to the house. The board and system is all wrong and a sound guy is coming in. The church has 27 foot high ceilings, wood floors, a rock wall where the instruments and improperly installed sound deadening material on the side walls. It is a great echo chamber when no one is there. They are fixing the material on the sides.
Don

This is a problem. Once it is addressed, you'll be on your way to better sound control.

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

I was going to get an Eden WT 550 head and a decent cab but think that is serious overkill for that church.

Don

The WT-550 is a great head and I would highly recommend getting it or the WT-405. As far as cabs: Look at Eden's 210XLT, 210XST, 212XLT, and 410XLT's. These cabinets are VERY efficient with SPL ratings in the 106db range. Stick with 8 ohm cabs as you will have more coverage options down the road with the WT-550's ability to run at 2 ohms. Don't worry about "too loud" with this set-up. You can NEVER have enough headroom in your bass rig set-up. Think of it as having all the control you will need for most any room. It's not always about volume given the right set-up.

[Don Edge]

12's and/or 10's could help you hear yourself better on stage.

Funny you should say that, I could not hear myself very well at all last Sunday. I looked at the WT-405, on-line, and read the entire "amp" thread. I haven't heard of anyone using the WT-405, at that I can find. Is it a good head and will it give good tone with plenty of options? I don't see much difference over the 550. Maybe some tweaking ability. What do they normally go for?

[Don Edge]

So with the WT-405 or 550 and the XLT or XST I could play at lower volumes and get the sound, or better sound, than I am currently getting?

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

So with the WT-405 or 550 and the XLT or XST I could play at lower volumes and get the sound, or better sound, than I am currently getting?

Yes. You still have all the other sounds issues within the church that are being addressed. But at a minimum, you will be way ahead of where you are now.

[Dave Martin]

I can think of two other issues that should be addressed - the first is that the sound that Don likes might simply be a bit too loud for the situation. There's a level at which the amp starts moving some air - and if that point is both where Don likes the sound AND is too loud for the room, then the issue can't really be fixed unless he finds an amp that gives him the sound he likes quietly.

The other issue - and one that's easily fixed - is that if Don is standing up and the amp is right behind him on the floor, he might not be hearing the volume that is the source of the complaints. The easy fix for this is to put the amp up on a chair or stool so that it's pointing directly at his head.

[Don Edge]

I actually did buy an amp stand to get it off the floor. The vibration through the stage was terrible and sounded as bad. I do think the amp does not move enough air at the lower volumes to produce adequate "quality" sound. Others on the Fender forum have also recommended the same volume settings I discovered for optimum sound. It may be a deficiency of the equipment or just what you get for $300. I am standing right in front of it so I am hearing the volume. It isn't a problem to me. I am also standing next to the drums. The last church voiced the same issue but I had no control over the 18 inch subs in the house system. I did use a 15 and 18 cab for fill (connected). I also stood directly in front of those. They actually sounded pretty good. The 15 combo was popping so the cab linked to it helped the combo out. I would really like to hear what an Eden rig sounds like. I heard an Ampeg combo once and didn't like it but I assume the Eden stuff we are discussing is above that. Of the 12XLT or 10XLT, if you could only get one right now, which should it be with the WT-405 head?

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

12's and/or 10's could help you hear yourself better on stage.

Funny you should say that, I could not hear myself very well at all last Sunday. I looked at the WT-405, on-line, and read the entire "amp" thread. I haven't heard of anyone using the WT-405, at that I can find. Is it a good head and will it give good tone with plenty of options? I don't see much difference over the 550. Maybe some tweaking ability. What do they normally go for?

Under your current circumstances, I totally understand why you are having trouble hearing yourself.

I have both the 550 and 405. Both heads are great. If I chose between the two, I'd go with the 405. Why? There are more options on the 405 (including a studio quality compressor) and two inputs. Both the 550 and 405 will run at 2 ohms and are close in output level.

Here's a link. Go check them out.

http://www.eden-electronics.com/prod...mps/index.aspx

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

I don't see much difference over the 550. Maybe some tweaking ability. What do they normally go for?

Check out the followin link for more detail on these amps.

http://www.eden-electronics.com/prod...mps/index.aspx

Once you've decided what you want, shop wisely, you don't have to pay retail price for these amps. When you get to that point, let me know.

[Don Edge]

Is the 405 you own like the one on the site or is it an older model before the changes they made?

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Don Edge

Is the 405 you own like the one on the site or is it an older model before the changes they made?

Yes, it's like the one you see on the site.

[Tim Bishop]

Don, BTW - has your church considered going to an AVIOM Set-up with everyone on in-ear monitors?