Help with my String/Bridge Height

[Calvin Marks]

Hi all, so I recently had my bridge re-cut since the E string side was far too low...Unfortunately, the problem has not been fixed so I decided to take measurements and see what you all think of this.

Height from belly to the top of the string at bridge:
G - 16 cm
D - 17 cm
A - 17 cm
E - 16.5 cm

Height from end of fingerboard to the very under part of the string:
G - 4 mm
D - 6.5 mm
A - 6 mm
E - 5.5 mm


From reading all the posts on this server it seems that my strings are not consistent in height at all...

I like 4mm for the G, but the 2.5 mm height increase on the D seems like too much of a gap. I also need way more than 5.5 mm on the E string, it seems that it should be at least 7 mm...

I also noticed that the strings aren't exactly IN the grooves at the bridge. The G string fits in nicely, with space due to how thin it is...But the D, A and E are somewhat over the slots.

My nut spacing between strings is perfect at 10 mm, and the height is consistent.

Also, the spacing between the strings at the bridge is consistent at 25 mm.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

Hi all, so I recently had my bridge re-cut since the E string side was far too low...Unfortunately, the problem has not been fixed so I decided to take measurements and see what you all think of this.

Height from belly to the top of the string at bridge:
G - 16 cm
D - 17 cm
A - 17 cm
E - 16.5 cm

Height from end of fingerboard to the very under part of the string:
G - 4 mm
D - 6.5 mm
A - 6 mm
E - 5.5 mm


From reading all the posts on this server it seems that my strings are not consistent in height at all...

I like 4mm for the G, but the 2.5 mm height increase on the D seems like too much of a gap. I also need way more than 5.5 mm on the E string, it seems that it should be at least 7 mm...

I also noticed that the strings aren't exactly IN the grooves at the bridge. The G string fits in nicely, with space due to how thin it is...But the D, A and E are somewhat over the slots.

My nut spacing between strings is perfect at 10 mm, and the height is consistent.

Also, the spacing between the strings at the bridge is consistent at 25 mm.

Your heights under teh fingerboard are way out of whack from anything I've seen or heard of. The G is the lowest and the E the highest with a 1-1.5nn progression on average or 2mm at the most. Up and down doesn't work for playing the Bass and for the tone, you must be overworking there trying to play that bass.

25mm spoacing is tight for a 5-string for bowing. 26-27 is better. For a 4-string orchestra bass, 26mm minimum to about 2 mm is the average, the 26mm being tight. 9-10mm or 3/8" at the nut is fine. Height under the string at the Nut should be a business card above 'zero'.

Sounds like this bass you have is in need of a 'bass player's' set-up. If playing solo only, the 25mm might work but with those heights, I can see now why you have been hunting for strings.

Come here if you can and play some of the basses here known by players as the best set-up group of basses at any shop on average. All of them are my basses and all were done for easy of playing with the bow, fingers, solo, orchestra, jazz etc. combined.

Did you ever read Arnold's set-up measurements here on the Forum? Introduced here.

Numbers are just that, numbers. I don't have the exact set-up numbers on every bass. What I do shoot for is the best set-up for each bass. Fingerboard curve/arch and camber/relief also play a huge factor in my mind. I like my boards a tad less than straight as far as the relief goes.

In my opinion, once you know the best numbers for your bass and playing, the communication with your Luthier will improve. The problem arises sometimes when other things on a bass do not allow the optimum set-up. Neck over stand and fingerboard shape play a role here as well. the straightness of the neck under the fingerboard is at least equally important. The neck reinforced with CF graphite is always a plus for that.

The music on the bass is so hard for our large instrument. Fighting the bass itself with a bad set-up or other inherent problems just takes the fun out of playing, totally.

If the G is 4mm then I would try for 4/5/6/7 (low arch) or 4/5.5/7/8.5 (bigger arch) or something close to 4-8 or so and increase all the numbers if the G is higher. The FB curve must follow the bridge to some degree.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

What Ken said...

[Calvin Marks]

Thank you VERY much for your reply. It seems that I definitely need to get the bridge/fingerboard plained correctly once and for all. I must admit it is a bit of a chore playing in thumb position considering the heights are so out of whack...I also can't really dig into the E string because of how low it is.

I had an audition the other day, and I actually got to the finals but the committee told me to raise my string heights...ha!

It's a bit tough in this city to find a repair person who also plays bass. Most of them are violinists at general music stores.

It seems 4,5,6,7 would be good, now I just need to find someone to do it!

[Arnold Schnitzer]

Calvin, 4mm under your G string is not going to allow you to bow aggressively. Typically, classical players keep the G at about 6mm. Good luck with your set-up, hope you find someone to get it right for you...

[Calvin Marks]

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

Calvin, 4mm under your G string is not going to allow you to bow aggressively. Typically, classical players keep the G at about 6mm. Good luck with your set-up, hope you find someone to get it right for you...

I like the 4mm on the G cause I'm playing a lot of solo repertoire. In order to win a job you need to play orchestral excerpts and a concerto/solo Bach. I could easily do the excerpts at 6mm+ on the G, but definitely not anything solo related.

If I had a job already I'd set my bass up with G at 7mm, but I don't really have that option.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

I like the 4mm on the G cause I'm playing a lot of solo repertoire. In order to win a job you need to play orchestral excerpts and a concerto/solo Bach. I could easily do the excerpts at 6mm+ on the G, but definitely not anything solo related.

If I had a job already I'd set my bass up with G at 7mm, but I don't really have that option.

When people try my basses here at 4-5mm, they ask me to raise it for them. My Martini is about 4mm and a tight feeling bass as far as the tension goes. If it was not as tight, 5mm would work better. With Flexocor or BelCantos, 4mm is fine for me but with Evah's, 5mm works better. These being the lowest possible heights for playing softly. For digging in, they need to be higher and my FB camber/curve is nearly flat. My Gilkes (Jilkes) has a bigger camber just due to the wood settling itself in the neck and FB and is usually tight as well. That Bass plays better slightly higher than the Martini. Go figure..

Arnold (above) has worked on both of these basses and has seen many many top pros play on them in his shop. He can go into better detail as far as the various heights here and there vs the playability soft thru heavy playing.

Now, if you just bought some old German shop bass with a long Eb neck and a thinned fingerboard I could understand you having problems due to the bass being out of repair set-up wise but, I am under the impression here that you have a brand new handmade bass. In my opinion, we should not be having this discussion. It is no rocket science to get a bass to play fairly well especially if it just left the makers hands. Did someone mess with the bass since it was made or has been fiddled with over and over by someone else who is not qualified to be doing so?

I have to say that between strings and set-up issues, you have been on at least 2 forums 'hunting' for answers way more than you did about the actual build of the bass before hand.

Please fill us in on how you got to this point and condition of bass IF we are talking about the new one you just had made.

[Calvin Marks]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

When people try my basses here at 4-5mm, they ask me to raise it for them. My Martini is about 4mm and a tight feeling bass as far as the tension goes. If it was not as tight, 5mm would work better. With Flexocor or BelCantos, 4mm is fine for me but with Evah's, 5mm works better. These being the lowest possible heights for playing softly. For digging in, they need to be higher and my FB camber/curve is nearly flat. My Gilkes (Jilkes) has a bigger camber just due to the wood settling itself in the neck and FB and is usually tight as well. That Bass plays better slightly higher than the Martini. Go figure..

Arnold (above) has worked on both of these basses and has seen many many top pros play on them in his shop. He can go into better detail as far as the various heights here and there vs the playability soft thru heavy playing.

Now, if you just bought some old German shop bass with a long Eb neck and a thinned fingerboard I could understand you having problems due to the bass being out of repair set-up wise but, I am under the impression here that you have a brand new handmade bass. In my opinion, we should not be having this discussion. It is no rocket science to get a bass to play fairly well especially if it just left the makers hands. Did someone mess with the bass since it was made or has been fiddled with over and over by someone else who is not qualified to be doing so?

I have to say that between strings and set-up issues, you have been on at least 2 forums 'hunting' for answers way more than you did about the actual build of the bass before hand.

Please fill us in on how you got to this point and condition of bass IF we are talking about the new one you just had made.

Same bass. It came with these string heights from the maker. I also put in about 2 years of research as to what I exactly wanted, and I got that, apart from the fingerboard camber issues. I'm honestly just looking for advice. You guys are used to playing great basses, so all I want are answers.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

Same bass. It came with these string heights from the maker. I also put in about 2 years of research as to what I exactly wanted, and I got that, apart from the fingerboard camber issues. I'm honestly just looking for advice. You guys are used to playing great basses, so all I want are answers.

Playing even a Plywood bass, it must be set-up correctly. Bad set-up is just that, bad unplayable set-up. Even a 100k bass can have a bad set-up.

If you want answers and demand them to guide you perfectly, HIRE a Bass set-up consultant. Short of that, you are stuck with the answers given on the Forums. Sorry!

[Calvin Marks]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Playing even a Plywood bass, it must be set-up correctly. Bad set-up is just that, bad unplayable set-up. Even a 100k bass can have a bad set-up.

If you want answers and demand them to guide you perfectly, HIRE a Bass set-up consultant. Short of that, you are stuck with the answers given on the Forums. Sorry!

Ken, what's with the hostility?

I don't demand anything. I share my experiences and hope that someone like yourself or Arnold will shine some light onto this scenario as you both have experience with bass set-ups.

I don't know of any "set-up consultants", at least in my area. Perhaps the best solution is to pack my bass up and drive south of the border and get it set-up properly once and for all.

[Drake Chan]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

Ken, what's with the hostility?

I don't demand anything. I share my experiences and hope that someone like yourself or Arnold will shine some light onto this scenario as you both have experience with bass set-ups.

I don't know of any "set-up consultants", at least in my area. Perhaps the best solution is to pack my bass up and drive south of the border and get it set-up properly once and for all.

I didn't see any hostility in Ken's post(s), although he did write "suck" as a typo for "stuck" (I hope! ).

And I think you answered your own question. The forums can only answer so much, IMO.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

Ken, what's with the hostility?

I don't demand anything. I share my experiences and hope that someone like yourself or Arnold will shine some light onto this scenario as you both have experience with bass set-ups.

I don't know of any "set-up consultants", at least in my area. Perhaps the best solution is to pack my bass up and drive south of the border and get it set-up properly once and for all.

I was just responding to your statement;

You guys are used to playing great basses, so all I want are answers.

I have you a huge first reply with all the details in a set-up and Arnold agreed 'what I said'. There is nothing more I can ad to it without having the bass in my hands if there is even more to say.

[Calvin Marks]

Doesn't Edgar Meyer and Jeff Bradetich play with super low action? Probably much lower than 4mm on the G.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Drake Chan

I didn't see any hostility in Ken's post(s), although he did write "suck" as a typo for "stuck" (I hope! ).

And I think you answered your own question. The forums can only answer so much, IMO.

Yes, Typo.. 'sTuck' was the word.. sorry.. Thanks for pointing that out..

[Calvin Marks]

http://www.performances.org/press/08...arMeyer-01.jpg

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

Doesn't Edgar Meyer and Jeff Bradetich play with super low action? Probably much lower than 4mm on the G.

I don't know what they use but they play the bass the play with the action the use. Is that the string height they would use in your shoes looking for a job in an Orchestra or did it take years to get to that and an instrument and set-up to match?

I can't answer you on that. Jeff and I were staying at the same hotel last week at the ISB by chance. Maybe had you asked me 2 weeks ago, I could of asked him one morning at breakfast!

[Arnold Schnitzer]

Calvin, it's important that the fingerboard arch be set properly before the bridge curvature can be worked out. If the fingerboard is too flat (cross-ways) the outside strings will have to be low or you won't be able to bow the bass. If you are going to use 25mm spacing at the bridge, which is quite narrow (27-28 is "normal"), the fingerboard will need to be more arched than usual. I hope this is clear and helpful...

[Calvin Marks]

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

Calvin, it's important that the fingerboard arch be set properly before the bridge curvature can be worked out. If the fingerboard is too flat (cross-ways) the outside strings will have to be low or you won't be able to bow the bass. If you are going to use 25mm spacing at the bridge, which is quite narrow (27-28 is "normal"), the fingerboard will need to be more arched than usual. I hope this is clear and helpful...

Thank you for the reply. Very clear, very helpful. The bass came with 25mm, and it bows fine, so I'll leave it that way. Seems that I need the fingerboard plained properly and then the bridge set-up in accordance with 4,5,6,7or8.

[Calvin Marks]

Should the strings fit IN the bridge/nut grooves or over? My G-string if fairly thin in gauge (Pirastro Flat-Chromesteel) so it has a lot of space in the bridge slot, whereas the rest of the strings are on top of the groove.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

I like the strings to sit about 3/4 of the way down into the groove. And I want the groove a few thousandths wider than the string. (Don't you just hate words like "thousandths" with five consonants in a row? Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, does it?)