Ken's Corner (Bass Forums Sponsored By KSB)

Go Back   Ken's Corner (Bass Forums Sponsored By KSB) > Double Basses > This Old Bass > English Basses & the British Isles

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 10-31-2007, 10:45 PM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,851
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up Out on the town...

Tonight was my first 'date' with the Hart. Truly a memorable evening. It was just a rehearsal but the Bass plays so smooth I could not concentrate on the music or the conductor. I was more or less loving each individual note or passage I played on the Bass enjoying the tone and feeling it left in my gut.

I think I will keep this Bass locked up in the office unless I have a concert to play and use my Martini for the rehearsals. I feel much safer that way as the Hart is easily 2x the value of the Martini and fully insured here in my office.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-01-2009, 01:21 PM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,851
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Cool update..

A few weeks ago I received an email from a man claiming to be an Heir to John Hart. His great grandfather was George Hart II, John's grandson. After a few exchanges while searching his 'roots' he tells me he now has the 'Will' of John Hart!

Later that day he faxes me a copy of the 'Will' and I almost popped out of my body.

Here's what I learned that until now, NO ONE had a clue to this.

First off, I suspected a continued relationship between J.Hart and William Gilkes but until now, not a peep in all the English Books of the world nor a mention from any English dealer. In the 'Will' he makes reference to William Gilkes a couple of times so that's proof to me that when Samuel Gilkes died his son William was to some degree at least befriended by the slightly older John Thomas Hart whom his father had trained for seven years, partly along side of young William who was only 16 in 1827 when Samuel died.

The next discovery from the 'Will' was his reference to William Valentine which from an interview with George Hart II in the early 20th century by one of the Hill Brothers referred to Valentine as an Uncle. From this it was interpreted that Valentine had married his Aunt from one of John's sons which I now see there were at least two. John Hart II who died young and left two children of his own at the time this Will's was written.

Here's the big one.. In the 'Will' Hart referred to Valentine (who made Basses for the firm for decades) as his 'Half Brother'!.. Wow.. same mother then I imagine and two different fathers. Now we know that Valentine didn't just work for the Harts, he was family and blood.

So, about a year and a half after the restoration of this Bass is complete with some speculation that Valentine may have been the maker, we find out that he and John were step brothers or more closely, 'half brothers' which includes a little Blood, not necessarily 'shed'.. lol

By the way, The Hart Bass is doing just fine and I will be using it this week most likely in place of my bigger English Gamba Bass. This is mainly due to the Neck heel difference between the two Basses plus Program I am playing which requires a few fast jumps into thumb position.

I don't play this Bass hardly enough at all which I am sure has leghtened its post-restoration development. I plan on changing that and getting out more with this Bass as well as practicing on it more.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-11-2010, 06:05 PM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,851
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Lightbulb more relatives..

Last week I received an email from the Wife of the Grandson of George Hart II who was the grandson of John Thomas Hart.

We have been exchanging information and things are coming together nicely. Some of the mysteries are unfolding as well. It is noted that he (JT Hart) turned to selling Guns a few years after Gilkes died and possibly because he was not doing so well with Violins and needed money. I don't know about his monetary needs back then BUT I do know that it's a short sided slanderous description and possible furnished by the Hill's in later years to tarnish their main competitor and belittle the accomplishments of Hart and his Sons.

Here's what I have learned;
John (?) Hart (senior), born c.1780 - Marksman and Gunsmith. He was acquainted with the 'Prince Regent' (later King George IV) who used to place heavy wagers on him in pistol shooting contests against the Beaux and young bucks who formed the dissolute Regent's companions. These contests took place in the Haymarket (Leicester Square, London), the targets being gold sovereigns balanced atop of wooden posts. If John was successful the Regent would reward him with "Give Hart the broken gold", i.e. the damaged sovereigns. This would have amounted to a considerable sum and John used it to purchase premises at 14, Princes Street, Soho, London, where he set up his gunsmiths business.

His son was the maker and apprentice to Gilkes, John Thomas Hart, born 17 February 1805 and died 4 January 1874.

It was at this address used by his father for his Gunsmith business that his son came to with his Violins to sell. Guns were the family business and his father was known personally to the new King, George IV whom I believe took the Crown in 1820 after his fathers death, George III.

Now, Gilkes was working prior to 1820 for about a decade for William Forster III aka Young Forster and son of Old Forster, William II who had made the Royal Basses and Cellos for King Geroge III. Forster III was also the Royal Maker succeeding his father in that position with Gilkes as one of his main Cello and Violin Makers in the shop. My Gilkes Bass was made I believe outside the Forster shop as Gilkes had opened his own shop the same year he left his relative and master Charles Harris Snr. and went to work for Young Forster in 1810.

I believe that the possibility exists of a Royal connection and in some way how John Thomas Hart would be introduced to Gilkes for an apprenticeship as his father was known to the King. The prior King and Royalty employed the services of the Forster Shop in where Gilkes was earlier employed.

So, the Forsters may have made and maintained instruments for the Kings but it was Hart Snr. that won the Gold from the King (then Prince Regent) in shooting matches which paid for the Gun Store in which young JT Hart would sell his first Violins. Also, Hart would go on to purchase some of the finest collections of old Violins from wealthy collectors. How did he make their acquaintance? A Royal connection between John Hart Snr, and King George IV?

Most of this 'connection' stuff is just speculation BUT the relationship between the Prince Regent (later King George IV) and John Hart Snr. is a part of the Hart Dynasty and not speculative in any way.

I must say that the Hart's I have talked to in present day are very proud of their heritage and rightly so.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-16-2010, 06:18 AM
Thomas Erickson's Avatar
Thomas Erickson Thomas Erickson is offline
Senior Posting Member
 
Join Date: 05-23-2010
Location: Pacific NW USA
Posts: 309
Thomas Erickson is on a distinguished road
Default

Very interesting stuff. You should write a book Ken...
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:39 PM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,851
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Cool late reply.. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Erickson View Post
Very interesting stuff. You should write a book Ken...
Tom, this IS the book!

I just had the Hart opened up for some minor tweaking after its restoration five years ago. The minor work of trimming back some of the repair wood had some Major results. The day I picked it up, Arnold said to give it a year to break back in. It's been almost a month now and with just some occasional playing on it, it is breaking in already from what I can feel and hear.

In the past while testing my basses in the office I would have someone listen from 2 rooms away and give me an evaluation of each bass comparing its carrying power and tone. Usually my 4/4 Panormo school bass was the loudest one in the rack. Last week, it was the Hart that was the loudest over the Panormo as he thought the Hart was the Panormo and was quite surprised when I told him the opposite. I attribute this to the recent work done on the bass.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-27-2013, 06:25 PM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,851
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Lightbulb Finale..

Well, the Hart/Fendt/Devereux was just Sold last week. With all the other basses I have been using for the last year or so and regardless of the superior sound and tone of the Hart, it just didn't get out as much as the other basses did. They say that 'the proof is in the pudding' which means in this case, if I am not using it as my main bass for most of what and where I play, then it really isn't my main bass, no matter how much I love it. I will miss the Hart, its beauty and its sound and will have to settle for one of the other basses I have which, are pretty good and work well in the venues I play.

So, this is the End of THIS Story. I hope you have enjoyed reading about this fantastic and rare instrument. On to the next one!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2007 - Ken Smith Basses, LTD. (All Rights Reserved)