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  #21  
Old 08-25-2009, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Edge View Post
I don't see much difference over the 550. Maybe some tweaking ability. What do they normally go for?
Check out the followin link for more detail on these amps.

http://www.eden-electronics.com/prod...mps/index.aspx

Once you've decided what you want, shop wisely, you don't have to pay retail price for these amps. When you get to that point, let me know.
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  #22  
Old 08-25-2009, 12:13 PM
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Is the 405 you own like the one on the site or is it an older model before the changes they made?
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  #23  
Old 08-25-2009, 12:14 PM
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I can think of two other issues that should be addressed - the first is that the sound that Don likes might simply be a bit too loud for the situation. There's a level at which the amp starts moving some air - and if that point is both where Don likes the sound AND is too loud for the room, then the issue can't really be fixed unless he finds an amp that gives him the sound he likes quietly.

The other issue - and one that's easily fixed - is that if Don is standing up and the amp is right behind him on the floor, he might not be hearing the volume that is the source of the complaints. The easy fix for this is to put the amp up on a chair or stool so that it's pointing directly at his head.
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  #24  
Old 08-25-2009, 12:30 PM
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Is the 405 you own like the one on the site or is it an older model before the changes they made?
Yes, it's like the one you see on the site.
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  #25  
Old 08-25-2009, 12:32 PM
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Question Btw...

Don, BTW - has your church considered going to an AVIOM Set-up with everyone on in-ear monitors?
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Old 08-25-2009, 12:36 PM
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I actually did buy an amp stand to get it off the floor. The vibration through the stage was terrible and sounded as bad. I do think the amp does not move enough air at the lower volumes to produce adequate "quality" sound. Others on the Fender forum have also recommended the same volume settings I discovered for optimum sound. It may be a deficiency of the equipment or just what you get for $300. I am standing right in front of it so I am hearing the volume. It isn't a problem to me. I am also standing next to the drums. The last church voiced the same issue but I had no control over the 18 inch subs in the house system. I did use a 15 and 18 cab for fill (connected). I also stood directly in front of those. They actually sounded pretty good. The 15 combo was popping so the cab linked to it helped the combo out. I would really like to hear what an Eden rig sounds like. I heard an Ampeg combo once and didn't like it but I assume the Eden stuff we are discussing is above that. Of the 12XLT or 10XLT, if you could only get one right now, which should it be with the WT-405 head?
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  #27  
Old 08-25-2009, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Bishop View Post
Don, BTW - has your church considered going to an AVIOM Set-up with everyone on in-ear monitors?
I discussed about doing this with the drummer. It may be a good idea for all. At least for the drummer and me. I will suggest it to see the reactions and their opinions. The sound engineer will be coming maybe this Saturday. I do agree with you (at least I think you are agreeing) that sometimes you have to do what it takes. We will all be there when he is there. I wish I had the Eden gear for him to set-up.
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  #28  
Old 08-25-2009, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Edge View Post
I would really like to hear what an Eden rig sounds like. I heard an Ampeg combo once and didn't like it but I assume the Eden stuff we are discussing is above that. Of the 12XLT or 10XLT, if you could only get one right now, which should it be with the WT-405 head?
Go with the Eden rig we've been discussing. If I had to choose, and could only get one cab "right now", to use with the WT-405, I would choose the 210XST(8).

Remember, stay with the 8 ohm cabinets and give yourself the opportunity to add-on later should the need ever arise. You may or may not need the added coverage for what you are currently doing, but know that you could! With the WT-550 or WT-405, you could push up to 4 8-ohm cabinets with no problem.
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  #29  
Old 08-25-2009, 12:52 PM
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I wish I had the Eden gear for him to set-up.
What part of Texas are you located?
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Old 08-25-2009, 01:11 PM
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What part of Texas are you located?
I am North of San Antonio. I called around and found a price of $900 plus tax for the WT-405. That was the lowest. It was at Sam Ash Music.
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  #31  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Edge View Post
I am North of San Antonio. I called around and found a price of $900 plus tax for the WT-405. That was the lowest. It was at Sam Ash Music.
Is the amp new in the box?

BTW - Have you tried Bass Emporium in Austin? They carry Eden and have a great selection of Eden amps and cabinets. If you are interested, call first and see if they have what we've discussed. If so, it might be worth the drive to go there (with your bass) and try it out.
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  #32  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:19 PM
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Cool Bass Emporium - Austin

Here's the link to Bass Emporium.

http://www.bassemporium.com/

Looks like they may have, in stock, what we've been discussing. Maybe they can work you a great package deal.
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Old 08-25-2009, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Edge View Post
I do think the amp does not move enough air at the lower volumes to produce adequate "quality" sound.
I dunno, Don - I've used large amps like the SVT I used on my last fly date, medium sized amps (My raggedy old SWR Super Redhead, the Eden Metro that's in my garage and a 4x10 Ampeg and head that lives in my studio), and small amps (I have a 35 watt B15 in the studio and I'm trying out the 1x12 150 watt Fender Bassman TV 12). I can get a smile producing sound from all of them (Though the Metro, for some reason is more problematic).

Over the years, I've played through a bunch of venue or rental company supplied amps that were small combo amps - the little SWR Working Man 10, a bunch of different Fender amps in the 100-200 watt range, even the occasional guitar amp (Some bluegrass promoters don't appear to know the difference between guitar and bass amps - or they don't care). They can all be made to work.

Day in and day out, I hear my basses most often through a pair of studio speakers with 6.5 inch woofers - or through headphones. Moving air shouldn't be a necessity - unless what you think of as a 'quality sound' is linked to the way the bass sound fills the room.

Can you describe what you want to hear from your amp? How do you want to hear your bass in relation to the drum volume?
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  #34  
Old 08-25-2009, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Bishop View Post
Here's the link to Bass Emporium.

http://www.bassemporium.com/

Looks like they may have, in stock, what we've been discussing. Maybe they can work you a great package deal.
I did call them and have been to their store. They were more but did not talk about a package deal.

Sound I like/looking for in relation to drums and me: I like punchy full bass with a good bottom. The Fender rumble does have a decent sound. Don't get me wrong. It just sounds somewhat muddy in the low registers and has to be turned up to get the punchy full good bottom bass sound. I do not play the bass by turning up the rig or bass and barely touching the strings. I am farely rough. This may have been a problem with some of the lesser quality 10 or 12 inch speakers. The sound tends to come out exploding thus popping the inferior speaker causing me to go with the 15s. With the Eden set-up, I may have to change, somewhat, how I play. This would not be an issue if I could get the same sound I am looking for at lower volumes but with good quality.

Does this make sense?
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Old 08-25-2009, 02:36 PM
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I also like the bass to be about the same level in loudness as the drums. Depending on the song, of course, this can change. All in all the bass should be slightly louder than the drums. This is my opinions but I am not on the board or in the audience. I only know what I want from the bass.
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  #36  
Old 08-25-2009, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Bishop View Post
Here's the link to Bass Emporium.

http://www.bassemporium.com/

Looks like they may have, in stock, what we've been discussing. Maybe they can work you a great package deal.
What about the WT-405 and the 210XST neo? How would that combo work?
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  #37  
Old 08-25-2009, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Edge View Post
I did call them and have been to their store. They were more but did not talk about a package deal.

Sound I like/looking for in relation to drums and me: I like punchy full bass with a good bottom. The Fender rumble does have a decent sound. Don't get me wrong. It just sounds somewhat muddy in the low registers and has to be turned up to get the punchy full good bottom bass sound. I do not play the bass by turning up the rig or bass and barely touching the strings. I am farely rough. This may have been a problem with some of the lesser quality 10 or 12 inch speakers. The sound tends to come out exploding thus popping the inferior speaker causing me to go with the 15s. With the Eden set-up, I may have to change, somewhat, how I play. This would not be an issue if I could get the same sound I am looking for at lower volumes but with good quality.

Does this make sense?
Well, the 15' (depending on maker and design of cab) is designed to hit the lower range (30 - 2k Hz) and hopefully somewhere in the 103 SPL range. The 10's and 12's you reference: Sounds like you either pushed them beyond what they were rated or maybe you were overdriving the amp with your bass. Several possibilities here.

There are endless possibilities as to getting you where you need to be, soundwise. I would encourage you to pursue a better bass rig/amp set-up vs. what you have. In the end, you have to be satisfied with your set-up and sound, outside of all the varying and subjective advice you may receive; including mine. All I can do is answer your questions and offer advice based on my experience.
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Last edited by Tim Bishop; 08-25-2009 at 03:04 PM.
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  #38  
Old 08-25-2009, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Edge View Post
I also like the bass to be about the same level in loudness as the drums. Depending on the song, of course, this can change. All in all the bass should be slightly louder than the drums. This is my opinions but I am not on the board or in the audience. I only know what I want from the bass.
You wouldn't want to overpower the drummer, but accentuate equally with the kick; without burying him in the mix. You can listen to many well and professionally mixed tunes and hear how well the bass and kick are mixed.
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Old 08-25-2009, 02:54 PM
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What about the WT-405 and the 210XST neo? How would that combo work?
Oh yeah. That would be a nice beginning!
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  #40  
Old 08-25-2009, 03:03 PM
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I found out it is a 4 ohm cab. They were discounting the 8 ohm cabs pretty good. So what is better for where I am playing, the XST or XLT, if only one is going to be used? I found them at Sam Ash Music on-line cheaper at 8 ohm. Bassemporium was all about how loud you could play. That is why they liked the 4 ohm.
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