Gamba Italian Basses..

[Ken Smith]

I am starting this thread to bring to light the subject of the Gamba shaped Italian Bass. Not the more famous Violin models or the Cornerless Guitar models but the Gamba models that are often overlooked as even being Italian.

Many of the Gamba model Italian Basses I have seen are from the Neapolitan School of makers. These include several Basses attributed to the various members of the Gagliano family, Ventapane, Fabricatore, Desiato, Tarantino and Loveri. Most of these are Gagliano School followers as well. Alessandro Gagliano is also the father or the Neapolitan School of makers.

From other Italian Schools and individuals there are Gamba Basses from Grancino, Rastelli, Postacchini, Sgarbi, Albani, Cavani, Caspani, Tecchler, Platner, Pedrazzini, Antoniazzi, Monzino, Ferrarotti, Santagiuliana, Botti, Valenzano and many others.

One interesting Bass of note was owned by Jazz legend Percy Heath. The first time I saw that Bass was around 1969 or so in a Shop when I was just a teenager and was told that's a Landolfi, Percy Heath's Bass. Years later I hear from another Bassist that the same Bass is thought to be a Testore. Most recently, the Bass has been attributed to Ruggeri.

I have seen many other Basses from the Italian School that were Gamba shaped and more often than not, without an accurate attribution. How accurate are the ones listed above that I have seen either in person or on the web? Who knows! Some are what they claim to be and some are attributed I am sure. One thing though is for certain, the Italians made many Basses of the Gamba form. The Italian Bass identity so often associated with the Violin cornered Model is not the only identity this country has to offer. Some of the names I have listed above are 200-300 years old while others barely a century old. This proves that the Gamba shape is one used for centuries by many Italian makers and for some, almost exclusively.

I have shown pics side by side of the Homer Mensch Attr. Gagliano and my Carlo Loveri before and here they are again below. Shown first is another old Neapolitan Bass that I once owned bearing a handwritten label of what seems to be a fictitious name, Raeffael Guadininni.



The most common stigma I see with a Gamba Italian Bass when trying to ID it is dealers quickly calling it German, Bohemian or Czech Bass not to mention Hungarian, English or even French.

What we should do here is open our eyes and look out for these 'Black Sheep' Double Basses from Italy that have been overshadowed for centuries by the more stylistic Violin cornered models.

If you know of any other Gamba Italian Basses, have one yourself, seen one on line or even have related stories of interest, then please post it here and show us some pictures or even web links if possible.

[Maury Clubb]

Here is a picture of my 17c M. Albani Bass which I thought should be included in this thread.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Maury Clubb

Here is a picture of my 17c M. Albani Bass which I thought should be included in this thread.

Beautiful Bass. Thanks for posting. If you can, show us the Back, Ribs and Scroll as well.

[Maury Clubb]

Here are additional photos of the bass. Keep in mind the scroll is probably Mittenwald ca 1840.

[Ken Smith]

The design under the Back Button is very interesting. The Scroll I am told is not original but 19th century S.Germany, just above the Tirol where this Bass was made in Bolzano. The tuners are the exact same ones (smaller gears) that came on my Mystery Bass when I got it. I have seen these on some old Mittenwald Basses as well as an old English/Italian Bass. The gears date from 1850 and before. On my Bass, 3 of them were 100% identical while one looks maybe 5% different. My Guess is that the Bass had 3 of them and in later years when converted to a 4-string, the Gears were still available and a 4th was added but made in the same shop some years later. This bass too has two different Gear sizes but the same exact Worm handles.

This will be a 'slow growth' thread being that we are looking specifically for old Italian Basses in the Gamba form. I know they are out there but not many of them with Forum members unfortunately. Still, it's nice to look back at the Basses made that were not affected by commercial production and Italian as well where it all started 450 years ago in Italy.

I think it's a treat when someone like Maury offers to share pics of a Bass as rare as his. Tirol Italian Basses are rare as well. With this region being shared by Austria, Germany and Italy you never know what might turn up. A few weeks ago while visiting Arnold I saw a beautiful old Fussen made Bass. Looked Italian to me but was actually from the German Tirol from over 300 years ago. A big violin cornered bass with an original Scroll, wide unusual FFs with tabs almost Maggini/d'Salo-like. It also had blackened reddish brown Varnish like we have seen on some old Italians but then again, this wasn't Italian. It was made just north of Italy.

[Maury Clubb]

I think your ****ysis is spot-on, particularly regarding the difficulty of attribution (I experienced it 1st hand) and the gears. It appears 1800-1850 was a big period of change for double basses. I would like to see picture of other basses by this maker. BTW, the playability, volume range, depth and complexity of tone with this bass are amazing (maybe like your Storioni?)

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Maury Clubb

I think your ****ysis is spot-on, particularly regarding the difficulty of attribution (I experienced it 1st hand) and the gears. It appears 1800-1850 was a big period of change for double basses. I would like to see picture of other basses by this maker. BTW, the playability, volume range, depth and complexity of tone with this bass are amazing (maybe like your Storioni?)

Well, the power and low end fundamental of the Storioni borders on painful. My eardrums close up when I play or listen to that bass played within 5-20 feet away. I know someone who recently bought a huge attributed Montagnana Bass. That Bass is known as a powerhouse. He recently played my Bass as mentioned it was similar but with the shoulders sloped he could get around it better and play the 44" length as well.

I would love to play your Bass, anytime any day.

By the way, my Loveri was just restored by Jeff Bollbach and sounds quite a bit better then before. It is also much prettier to look at as well.



Are the words Gamba and Gumba related at all? I wonder..

[Nick Hart]

Well Ken, Gamba means leg and Goomba is a southern Italian, quite like myself, so I guess we can draw the comparison of a leg to the boot shape of Italy?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Nick Hart

Well Ken, Gamba means leg and Goomba is a southern Italian, quite like myself, so I guess we can draw the comparison of a leg to the boot shape of Italy?

My Loveri is Italian and from Southern Italy. Does that make it a Goomba Gamba?

[Nick Hart]

Yes it does!

[Ken Smith]

I played the Loveri in 2 orchestras to give it a good run and see what it can do. It sounds great but personally I need a C-Extension for what I do. Having several larger bodied Italian and English Basses with Extensions already I have opted to send the Loveri off to market to find a new home. It will be showcased up at Arnold's shop in Brewster, NY.

[Ken Smith]

Ok, below you will see 2 Basses. One we know is a Carlo Loveri. The other has nearly identical F-holes. Please look for your self and tell me what 'you' see!



Maybe someone here has some 'photoshop' skills and can size and overlay these on top of each other to see how close they are.

On the Loveri, all Bouts have been cut and reduced in size so the relationship to the outer edges are not original but close as only the upper Bouts were cut severely. On the other Bass the C-bouts and Lower bouts are original but with some edge wear. The upper bout has been cut as well just above the cornerblock but only slightly. Have a look at them side by side!

[Brandon Mason]

They look very similar to me. The darker bass may be a Joe Loveri, one of the unsung Neapolitan makers.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Brandon Mason

They look very similar to me. The darker bass may be a Joe Loveri, one of the unsung Neapolitan makers.

There is a Joe (Guiseppe?) Loveri? Where is this information noted?

Thanks for the 'Photoshop' work. They look 98% identical. Plus, the 1873 Loveri was Cut. It is not impossible for the FFs to be slightly re-shaped on that Bass either. The new acquisition is all original in the FFs as far as I can see but I could slightly alter them and get it to 99.5% identical if need be..

[Brandon Mason]

98% is right! Are you sure your Loveri doesn't have an eHarmony profile?

I would definitely look further into this. The obvious difference is the varnish. Is that just oxidized, Italian red? Would, say, Loveri use such differing varnishes?

Whatever the case, great looking bass. I'm anxious to see the restored result.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Brandon Mason

98% is right! Are you sure your Loveri doesn't have an eHarmony profile?

I would definitely look further into this. The obvious difference is the varnish. Is that just oxidized, Italian red? Would, say, Loveri use such differing varnishes?

Whatever the case, great looking bass. I'm anxious to see the restored result.

First off, I am not sure about the darker stuff. It may have been varnished over that lighter golden brown as seen on my 1873 Loveri.

On the 'Joe' thing, he is a 20th century maker aka Loveri Bros. The Henley book had 1825 for a date on the Loveri Bros. so something is confusing here. This new/old Bass of mine is very old. By the edge wear alone and other natural aging signs I would guess it to be well over 100 years old if not 150 or more. It looks as old or older than my former Dodd, Prescott, or current Hart and Gilkes all of which are 1830 or earlier. Maybe those Bass were just built stronger and better stood the test of time?

I will research this Bass very carefully but I have it sometime in 19th century Naples. Also, the Dimensions on the middle and lower bouts as well as the body length and overall length are very similar to my Loveri. What is very different though is the original string length. The Loveri was at least 43" before cut and this new one before the slight cut was maybe 42" or so.

Both are long bodied Basses with long Gaglianoish FFs. Hey, maybe it's one of the Gagliano's or another maker in Naples from before the Loveri's, who knows?

In the mean time, here is the Link to the Attributed Old Neapolitan.

[Ken Smith]

Ok, I just strung her up a short while ago. I didn't' have any old strings lying around so I put on a new set of Eurosonic Orchestra Lights (ones that I helped develop).

First off, the Fingerboard is poop. Some stupid wood from the Amazon and humped on the neck so it buzzes all over and dives down to the Top so the action is whacked.

The Bridge barely sits well on the Top and is warped way towards the strings as well as shortening the String length quite a bit.

In Shipping the Neck/Scroll/Pegbox was broken in the Graft area so I 2-toned it with some Epoxy overnight just to see If I could do a quick set-up and get a taste of what she has.

The Bass Bows very smooth and the E has great power. The upper notes are fair but hey, you can sort mail thru all these cracks that are open in the Back as well as seams, Ribs and the Top of course.

So, what does this Bass need? Well, what doesn't it need? I think this Bass will be in service in 2-3 years from now and need 2-3 years more to break back in. In the mean time, I think it has a nice low end spread and feels like a 200 year old Orchestra Bass. The sound is wide and quite warm ,just not tons of power now probably because of the 50 places the air is leaking from. Despite all this, the sound is quite focussed as well.

[Ken Smith]

After discussing the pics of my latest mystery acquisition with two prominent NY Luthiers, both of them independently agree that this is a 19th century Neapolitan Bass. I also asked if it could possibly be Czech, German or Bohemian like some less informed people suspected from looking at some poorly taken pics. Once again they both believe it is Italian and most likely Neapolitan.

The factors that point to 19th century Naples are the classic FFs, the long Scroll/pegbox with the grade of the Scroll wood (which seems to have a few original glue joints showing it was pieced together length and width-wise), the slab cut Rib wood and the rift cut Top wood. The cut shoulders displaying the current upper bout shape was not discovered till now as well as the wood traits mentioned when carefully examined in person at my shop.

I recently learned about another Loveri Bass that has an open peg Box similar to mine and the Luthier that worked on it believed it was most likely original as well.

Here are some pics that helped in the deciding factors I just mentioned;



The FFs and the Scroll were major factors separating it from anything Central European. The style of the wood chosen was also another clue as we almost never see Slab cut wood on Germanic/Czech type Basses nor do we see Scrolls made with multiple pieces for yield. The open Pegbox can mean anything but the fact that it looks original like the other Loveri mentioned shows that this style was used. The wood plates on the cheeks are not original and I doubt the Gear order is either. The Gears though can be original but I would have to destroy the plates to find out as they are glued on the cheeks. The 1873 Carlo Loveri I have was made more Cello shape and cut down to a solo shaped Bass. This one has only been slightly cut at the bouts and then sloped up at the block as the shoulders still have some width to them.

[Ken Smith]

I went out to Jeff Bollbach's yesterday to bring home my Storioni for some concerts as the restoration is currently on hold. Jeff suggested I bring along the new Gamba I just got in to have a good look inside the Bass.

As soon as we put the Bass up on the bench, he commented something like 'this is nothing 'but' Italian from what I can see' (as a few people looking at pics suspected Czech). Looking inside the Bass it was obvious by oxidation that the Bass was at least 150 years old if not older (c.1850 or before). In comparing the FFs he commented how similar they are to Loveri but also that they are only similar and not Loveri's hand (Jeff has worked on several Loveri Basses). Hence, this Bass is not by Loveri and older as well. Jeff also examined the Scroll and said the open back is original (like a Loveri he has worked on) as well as original to the Bass. With the exception to the slight shoulder cut, the Bass is all original.

So, now that I know what it's not, we may never know who the actual maker is. At least I know now that it's a Gagliano School Bass just like Loveri is. That's a good start even if it's all we even find out.