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  #1  
Old 07-31-2011, 12:40 PM
Richard Pearson Richard Pearson is offline
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Default Questions on Preamps

So in my search for KS, I have come across a few different preamp options, the newer 3 bands, and the older 2 band(which I have seen them listed saying the "sought after 2 band preamps") What is the difference tonally between the 2? My bass teacher(bass player for Bettye Lavette) has one with the 2 band, and I love the tones he gets out of it....to my ears he can get the sig KS tone, and also get some darker, warmer tones out of it. Also what is the control layout on those, I notice one knob is double stacked. Thanks!!
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Old 07-31-2011, 05:24 PM
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Default Difference?

The difference: The 2-Band does not have the Mid Control as the 3-Band does. I personally am not a fan of the 2-Band as those in the "sought after" camp. The added Mid Control on the newer Smith Models gives the player way more flexibility in shaping the tone in the mix.

As far as the 2-Band Layout: The Control closest to the neck would be the Volume Control (also Push/Pull to enable or disable Pre-amp), then the Pan Control, then the Stacked Control (closest to bridge) would be your Bass and Treble Controls.
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Old 07-31-2011, 05:43 PM
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Lightbulb ok..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Pearson View Post
So in my search for KS, I have come across a few different preamp options, the newer 3 bands, and the older 2 band(which I have seen them listed saying the "sought after 2 band preamps") What is the difference tonally between the 2? My bass teacher(bass player for Bettye Lavette) has one with the 2 band, and I love the tones he gets out of it....to my ears he can get the sig KS tone, and also get some darker, warmer tones out of it. Also what is the control layout on those, I notice one knob is double stacked. Thanks!!
Several questions here and I have to add some information to fully explain things as clearly as possible.

The older 2-band model is just bass and treble EQ, the Stacked Knobs. The Volume is push/pull active-down/passive-up. The Balance control is the middle knob used to mix, balance or single the pickups sweeping from one to the other.

The BT Concentric models (as I call it) were made from about 1986-1992/3. In 1993 we came out with the 4/5 knob unit. The 4-knob was the exact same circuit as the 3-knob concentric unit, exact except for the layout. The sound difference electronically? None!

The 5th knob is the Midrange control next to the bridge in position (BMT circuit). The Mid was the only addition to the circuit which stayed the same thru 2004 on the basses when the 18v BMT came out with internal DIP switchable band frequency centers and set as default slightly different than the earlier BMT and BT models but, the original frequencies were in the pre-set DIP switch if desired. So, from 1986 when the BT Concentric came out until even now, the exact same frequencies are available in the Circuits. The current Default setting are actually more similar to the 1981-1985 BT model basses.

Now, lets talk construction. There you will find the differences in Tone rather then the Circuit used to amplify and EQ the bass.

The current Neck-thru models made today with the laminated Heel-caps in the Back to match the neck and body thicknesses are the same in design as with the earlier basses made from 1981-'85, made in New York. In 1986 in the first Pennsylvania Shop we started making the Neck-thru models with the full heel and head angle all in one. The Neck blocks were glued up much thicker and about a foot longer so that we could cut out two full neck/heel/head blanks from each block. This although seemingly easier to to also required longer glue joint for the blocks as well as about 50% of more wood overall.

Tonally, the all-one type Neck style models sounded different than the ones with the Hell Laminated and Heads cut and reversed for the angle back headstock. All-one made Necks left us with no control which way the neck would bend naturally after being cut out from the larger neck block billets. Making them the OLD-old and New-old was with separate pieces allows us to process a straight neck piece without the heel and head in the way for joining as well as, and this is the MOST important part of this process to follow. Having it the old way, the fingerboard surface was always the outer surface of each side of every block, no choice, just the way it is. The New way we can 'float' a 'machined' straight edge on each side of the neck billet after it is cut out from a smaller 2-neck block/billet and after acclimated for months to years (made from old aged/acclimated lumber in stock), it is taken down to size and choose the better side for strength by judging the way the wood 'wants' to breathe and move. Then, the fingerboard side is chosen and as well, which end for the body and head that will work best if there is any difference in regards to grain preference.

So, the way the necks are made are quite different than before and structurally, better than ever.

One VERY important factor not yet mentioned is the difference between old and new as far as the age of the actual bass. When as bass like this is made from multiple pieces of various species of wood, it takes time until it all settles and works as one, coming into its own spirit or soul, instrument wise. A 1988 bass for instance is 10 years older than a 1998 bass. It is not the circuit, it's the bass!

Also, the BT shape and BSR shape sound slightly different in shape. The BT is wider and the BSR is longer. Both have a similar mass of wood when compared but the BT is more compact, short and stout rather than long and slender.

From playing the Double Bass I can tell you that once you put aside shape. looks and comfort, older IS better. I have one bass from 2003 that is much much better now in 2011 with 8 years to its age. Regardless of it being 8 years old, it hasn't been played all that much in that time. Probably less then 2 years in total. Still, it sound better now than when new and I have known this bass from its first year of age. I have a lot of experience playing very old basses from 100-200 years old and a few around the 300 and 400 year mark. The freedom of tone an older bass puts out is nothing like the response of newer younger instruments.

All Basses need time to break in and settle down. An older 1988 vintage bass is older. a 2008 bass in my opinion is made at least as good if not better. There is nothing we can do to make a new bass sound old other than using old wood. In 10 or 20 years, that particular bass will improve as well. If you like an older bass for what ever reason, please try and understand if possible what the real reasons actually are. I have played several older BMT models that have the vintage Mojo as well just like the BT models made a few years earlier.
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Old 07-31-2011, 06:59 PM
Richard Pearson Richard Pearson is offline
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Got it. Thanks for the in depth response Mr. Smith.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:48 AM
Richard Pearson Richard Pearson is offline
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Well, I ended up acquiring a 92 CR5 with 2 band Eq, about 6 months ago. I love the growl I get out of her, but sometimes want a slightly darker tone. Is it possible to retrofit the old 2 bands with the S/P switches? Thanks again Mr Smith, for these amazing basses.
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  #6  
Old 05-07-2012, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Pearson View Post
Well, I ended up acquiring a 92 CR5 with 2 band Eq, about 6 months ago. I love the growl I get out of her, but sometimes want a slightly darker tone. Is it possible to retrofit the old 2 bands with the S/P switches? Thanks again Mr Smith, for these amazing basses.
I have put S/P switches in a few of them but, your pickup can also be wired in Series instead of Parallel like it is now. The Switches will allow you to change back and forth.
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:46 PM
Richard Pearson Richard Pearson is offline
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Thanks, I'll email with some more questions regarding prices.
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  #8  
Old 09-05-2013, 05:55 AM
frederic vidal frederic vidal is offline
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Hi Ken,

I have a 92 BT5 (5G97192CM)and i'm surprise, i don't have a push pull active passive system on the volume knob is it normal ?



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  #9  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:27 AM
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Default Hmm...

Hmm, somethin' about this doesn't look like Ken's work to me. A possible modification or pot replacement maybe?
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  #10  
Old 09-05-2013, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frederic vidal View Post
Hi Ken,

I have a 92 BT5 (5G97192CM)and i'm surprise, i don't have a push pull active passive system on the volume knob is it normal ?



The volume knob looks damaged so perhaps it was broken and fixed wrong. The jack has tape around it but using our wires so that too looks like it was worked on after we made the bass. If the wrong jack was used, that too could defeat the push-pull active-passive function.

This can be all repaired back to normal if sent here. It looks like something was attempted before and failed so sending it back would get it done right.
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  #11  
Old 09-05-2013, 02:29 PM
frederic vidal frederic vidal is offline
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Ah ok, the problem, i'm in France...

But for you it's an original circuit ?

I put of the volume knob and i can't push pull the knob.

I think i'll bring it to my luthier to see the problem.
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  #12  
Old 09-05-2013, 02:47 PM
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by frederic vidal View Post
Ah ok, the problem, i'm in France...

But for you it's an original circuit ?

I put of the volume knob and i can't push pull the knob.

I think i'll bring it to my luthier to see the problem.
The circuit is original but you need a new Volume knob/pot/board.

Email me at the company to buy the correct part you need. sales@kensmithbasses.com

You should by a new jack as well and it comes wired. Also, put some Smith TC strings on that bass and make it feel better. The shipping is more then the part so add the other items within the same freight cost.
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  #13  
Old 09-06-2013, 02:28 AM
frederic vidal frederic vidal is offline
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Thanks for your respons Ken, i'll thinking about that.
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  #14  
Old 09-14-2013, 01:18 PM
frederic vidal frederic vidal is offline
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Hi Ken,

I sent you a message.
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  #15  
Old 09-16-2013, 04:18 PM
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Thumbs up Part purchased..

Quote:
Originally Posted by frederic vidal View Post
Thanks for your respons Ken, i'll thinking about that.
The part is paid for now and is on the way to you with instructions how to install.
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  #16  
Old 10-12-2013, 07:26 AM
frederic vidal frederic vidal is offline
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Hi Ken,

The new Volume knob/pot/board is on my bass and everything is alright.

Many thanks Ken !

What a great bass, i'm in love...
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