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#1
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![]() Hello everyone! Folks over at TalkBass directed me to this forum because of this specific thread on Czech shop/factory basses; looks like a fantastic place! I wanted to post some details about my early 20th c. Czech factory bass with two goals in mind:
![]() Probable Origin
Current Owner
Also, someone on TalkBass mentioned that this bass has a French cello outline. What does that mean? Thanks in advance, Steve Additional Photos ![]() The label inside the bass. ![]() A 1915-1916 B&J Catalog ![]() A 1907 B&J ad from the Music Trade Review ![]() Purfling on the back ![]() Moderate flame on the back and sides Before Photos (UGLY--you have been warned) ![]() Only shot I have of the thing that shows what it looked like when I bought it. You can see the shiny boat epoxy all over the thing. Yeeeuch! That Scottie dog really needs a haircut, too! ![]() Varnish removal ![]() The carved back was in fairly decent shape ![]() Close up of a newspaper photo. Ouch! The boat epoxy/varnish was nearly 1/4 thick in places. I can't believe I played it that way for nearly 6 years! |
#2
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![]() I read this over on TB and you are right about the made in Czech. part but I doubt the day the war ended this bass was made and shipped. It might have taken a year or two to get things made, find customers like B&J and make new business arrangements. Also, the needed money to be in business and America was not in the best of Shape either.
A few of the other Importers then included The Juzeks in NY, Grossman co. in Cleveland and even Sears and Wurlitzer for basses. I am sure there are others. Juzek bough the basses from the Czech side of the German/Czech border near Schoenbach and Markneukirchin. Who actually made what and where? Your guess is as good as mine. The Wilfer Family made basses for several generations as did Dolling, Meyer, Saumer, Hoffmann, Neuner & Hornsteiner in the south, Hofner and Framus. I just got a bass by a maker named Wilhelm Uebel. If not for another member here posting an identical bass with his label as mind didn't have one, I would not have known who he was. The Uebel is an older Gamba shape (no violin corners) with a round back and dates from before 1900. My bass was previously sold as French by a big famous shop in NY. This was a careless mistake as the name of the maker was written on the underside of the Tailpiece from an old repair session decades ago. They just had to look.. lol.. Also, with outer linings and that varnish, it is 100% German. That bass is not yet on the site but it's twin was posted here not long ago. For that German/French model/styling there are several basses posted in both German and French basses as to what they are. I brokered a bass not long ago to Phil Maneri that was sold it's last 2x as a French bass. Then I broke the news that it was German and probably from this same area or slightly north as I have even seen claims of basses from Berlin of this same style. Here's Phil's bass before he bought it. The line around the top and back with or without the Purfling running with it or not. Most German basses of this style have a round/carved back as it was the nicer Vuillaume copy French model. Actually, I can't recall a single French model like this with a flat back from Germany. Here is a real Vuillaume style French bass but this one with a flat back in a similar style. This maker however worked mostly in Belgium. In France these were made for over half a century and probably as many round backs as flat backs as this was a normal model for that country. On the German, the outer linings give it away. On the French, the scroll, varnish and gears usually tell a story on their own. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() On the back of these basses, that false button on the French bass is typical French whereas I have never seen the Germans bother with it in their copy. That purfled design on your back is similar to many basses I have seen by Wilfer BUT, the black lines are much thicker so not Wilfer as far as the Juzek style basses. |
#3
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![]() Thanks so much, Ken, for all that great info! Yes, I don't imagine that the bass would have been made right after WWI--that's why I said the earliest it could have been made is in 1918, but probably later in the 20s. That said, I imagine the "Made in Czechoslovakia" label was put in by B&J in NYC, right? The label is in English after all. It's such a tiny piece of paper (and separate from the B&J label) that I had never seen it until this month! The guy who did my restoration was so sure it was from about 1911. I thought it was turning 100 this year until I found that damn label!
![]() Thanks also for the info on purfling and shape. One thing I notice is the basses you show have the wider bouts that I have seen on other German/Czech factory basses. Mine is slimmer and always reminded me of the shape of the J. B. Gabrielli 1790 on page 94-95 of the Elgar book (I still have an old photocopy of that from the MSU library). ![]() Not exactly the same geometry, but more similar. The Gabrielli is slimmer than mine by about an inch across all dimensions and the lower bout is much more round at the bottom. For posterity and the future utility of this post, here are my approx. measurements: Upper Bout: 19 1/2" Center Bout: 15" Bottom Bout: 25 1/2" Rib Depth: 8 1/4" (6 7/8" at Neck) Belly Length: 43 1/2 String Length: 41" (bridge is high--should probably be 41 1/2") So again, thanks a million! I hope uploading info about my bass adds to the collective info on this Czech bass thread. If anyone reading this now or in the future has had contact with a similar instrument, please post something here. Thanks! Steve P.S. I'm not sure if the tuning machines are of any help in dating/describing these basses, but mine are identical in every way to these (the photo, however, is from another bass). ![]() |
#4
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![]() The Made In' was required for export in the language of the Country it was going to. USA was a huge consumer so they had the spelling figured out in advance!
![]() The Tuners look good for between the wars as does the bass. Many 19th century Orchestra basses made in Germany have much wider lower bouts. Your bass is the later smaller design across the bottom. It looks like a nice bass so enjoy it as you have in the past. |
#5
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![]() That place B & J was at 113-115 University Place. I lived for 17 years on 13th and University pl.. This place is between 12th and 13th street. It was right across the street from where Stromboli's pizza is now. It's less than 100 feet door to door from my old apartment building. Go figure.. lol
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#6
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![]() Thanks again, Ken! Yes, B&J were at that location as early as 1904; here's a clip I found from the Music Trade Review from that year announcing their "third complete catalogue to the trade." Elderly Instruments in Lansing, where I worked as a college student, has a reprint of the B&J 1915-1916 catalog for $12. Might be cool to have.
I love the bass and was just joking about the age. I don't care how old it is--it's perfect for me and I love it. To round out the discussion, here are some current mugshots of the front, back, and sides. ![]() ![]() |
#7
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![]() Also, one more difference between French and German of a similar model is the upper bout back bend. A French bass will bend from the corner block to the neck gradually. A German bass will bend steeply half way up with an angle cut, flat or round back. If it's not bent and has outer linings, it's German. I have seen so many Hawkes basses claiming to be French because the dealer over charged and called it French that were 100% typical German work and nothing at all like a French bass. Just nice grade German work so they sell it as French. Fraud in my book. Buyer beware!
So outer linings and/or angle bent back = German as opposed to French. Italian and English basses might have some of this too but they are usually obvious as not being German or French, usually. Quote:
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#8
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![]() Quote:
![]() Thanks again for all the info. Steve |
#9
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![]() Quote:
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#10
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![]() Quote:
"Even should the war end to-morrow, there is no question but that there will be a tremendous scarcity of musical merchandise this fall. When hostilities cease there will be a necessary readjustment of all conditions, due to the loss of so many workmen from the ranks of musical merchandise workers. In normal times, when a skilled employee forsakes the industry for personal reasons, it is extremely difficult to adequately replace him, and one can conjecture what the conditions will be after the war has ended and so many of the best mechanics who have fought at the front never return." Samuel Bugeleisen, Music Trade Review 1915I thought you'd get a kick out of just how correct you were, right from the horse's mouth, so to speak. The catalog he discusses later in the article is the one I'll be sending you. Here's a photo of Mr. B from that same publication. ![]() |
#11
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![]() I was talking one day to Peter Eibert who worked just before and during the 2nd war for Heinrich Lang and moved in the 60s to NY and worked for Juzek. He told me that after the war (II) Robert Juzek (brother of John) made contracts directly will all the workers that had moved from Shoenbach(CZ) to Beubenruth(GR) to avoid Communist rule. In doing that, his brother John, still there in Czech I think was left out of the business for good. R.Juzek supported the workers of the Wilfer shop, sent them clothing, blue jeans and money to get back to life and business and make them some Basses. I don't know where the Violins thru Cellos came from but probably the same group of people but Wenzle B. Wilfer was the head of the Wilfer firm after the War and I only see his name on basses. I had seen older Basses and Cellos from the 30s by Anton Wilfer. So, yes, nothing rebuilds itself overnight. It takes some time.
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#12
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![]() ![]() from a 1903 edition of the Music Trade Review. In the event some future reader of this thread discovers a "Salvadore De Durro" label, here is a long list of direct quotes from the trade publication Music Trade Review that I discovered recently. Samuel Buegeleisen was a regular contributor/subject of this publication, which contains a great deal of information about the marketing hype surrounding "Salvadore de Durro, the famous manufacturer of Liepzig, Germany." I'm no expert, but it's my guess that much of this is marketing hyperbole if not outright fiction. It is interesting, though, and gives a little window to the music marketing practices of the time. Early on, B&J had a contest for crafting a marketing message; another passage outlines how a real person in NYC named his son in honor of the "violin maker," who is also called the "Stradivarius of the twentieth century." Below the quotes are some interesting images, including one of the NYC building that housed B&J for many years (still standing and now the home of Amalgamated Lithographers of America). Enjoy if you're interested and ignore if you ain't. Note: the MTR scans are available from The International Arcade Museum, and were scanned/digitized with support from NAMM. Quotes that mention "Salvadore de Durro" from the Music Trade Review 1903-1925 Quote:
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() This is the portrait of Benhahan Durro Strasburger, mentioned in the 1904 quote above. ![]() ![]() |
#13
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![]() Hey Ken... the catalog reprint I ordered for you arrived (I wanted a peek before I sent it on). The bad news is that it's only a partial reprint and does not contain any violin family instruments, let alone basses. My pals at Elderly put me in touch with their vendor, who is putting me in touch with the owner of the original catalog. I still hope to find out what B&J was putting in their catalog as available instruments.
I'd love to send you the reprint if you still want it, but it only has mandolins, guitars, and banjos in it. ![]() This place has some images from a slightly earlier B&J catalog, and one page has the Durro violin line. Man, I want to see what they were telling people about the available basses. Steve P.S. You mentioned you lived near the B&J building. It's still there; here's a shot of what it looked like then: ![]() |
#14
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![]() My building was diagonally across coming at you. That is the south east corner. I was on the north west corner. I think it's the same building but never looked up at it. My Apartment building was probably just dirt then.. lol
The Car you see is coming up University Place. The cross street is 13th looking eastward. It's up to you. As you say, not much to look at. Save the stamps for now but thanks for the effort. |
#15
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![]() Found some additional information about the Czech basses imported by B&J; I'm posting it here because I thought you might find it useful or interesting. And special thanks to Ken for your history and help with identification. I hope I get to visit your shop one day and buy something from you.
![]() ![]() --Steve Last edited by Steve Robinson; 01-29-2011 at 07:40 PM. |
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