Fingerboard and Bridge relationships

[Ken McKay]

I thought I would post this here as well as that other place.

Did your fingerboard ever love your bridge? Is your bridge plotting adultery? Was this an arranged wedding, a shotgun perhaps?

NO, this is serious! Have a look at the photos. The first shows the fingerboard and bridge and their bow clearance shaped like in the Strobel Useful Measurements book. This basically sucks. The middle strings are way higher off the fingerboard when the "classical bridge shape is used, and still high when shaved down flatter for "jazz". The second Photo is with a beefier fingerboard that is shaped to give more height under the middle strings, yet preserving the bow clearance with a matching bridge.

I call it a parabolic fingerboard and bridge and it works well on a real instrument. The only catch is that the standard fingerboard blanks are a too shallow to achieve this. I had to start from a plank of ebony.

Somewhere in between these two extremes probably lies the majority of bass set ups I would think.

[Ken Smith]

Really? Well for me, to see the Bow clearance you need to draw a line under the 1st and 3rd string and see how high the 2nd string is over that line and then the 2nd and 4th string to see how high the 3rd string is.

I don't know where those drawings came from or the thought of fingerboards being too thin but I have not had a problem with set-up unless the Board was old and worn down from many dressings or a luthier just did it wrong.

Most people I know are used to a gradual hight increase from the G to the E string above the end of the fingerboard and with a bowable bridge arch.

I wasn't aware that there was a fingerboard spec problem. I thought it was just bad set-ups that caused it.

I thought I would post this here as well as that other place.

Oh? Well I didn't see over there that you mentioned it being posted here. Why is that?.. lol

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Oh? Well I didn't see over there that you mentioned it being posted here. Why is that?.. lol

Well, I guess he posted over there first ... lol

[Ken McKay]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Really? Well for me, to see the Bow clearance you need to draw a line under the 1st and 3rd string and see how high the 2nd string is over that line and then the 2nd and 4th string to see how high the 3rd string is.

I don't know where those drawings came from or the thought of fingerboards being too thin but I have not had a problem with set-up unless the Board was old and worn down from many dressings or a luthier just did it wrong.

Most people I know are used to a gradual hight increase from the G to the E string above the end of the fingerboard and with a bowable bridge arch.

I wasn't aware that there was a fingerboard spec problem. I thought it was just bad set-ups that caused it.

Oh? Well I didn't see over there that you mentioned it being posted here. Why is that?.. lol

These are my drawing. Yep there is a problem, I have seen a quite a few, especially in school basses. Is it bad set up or just general misinformation? Well, the Strobel book Usefull Measurements for Stringed Instruments is what a lot of luthiers use to for templates, especially for instruments they are not used to setting up. The first drawing is the exact templates from that book.

[Ken McKay]

He Ken,
This is THE forum that I search first for information, if that counts for anything.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Ken McKay

He Ken,
This is THE forum that I search first for information, if that counts for anything.

It counts for a lot.. thanks..

Speaking of bad set-ups, a local HS senior brought me a modern 5-string yesterday in need of a basic set-up. I wont mention the brand or point a finger but this is how the bass was shipped to him.

The Fingerboard is already too flat in the center to achieve an optimum string height over the end of the FB regardless of how I arch the bridge. Still, I explained to him that the bridge must be made bowable despite the FB shape.

I also showed him my big 5er which was set as a 4 or 5 string with 2 sets of notches on the bridge and he loved that idea so I will do the same with his bass. What I can't do is add wood back to the fingerboard for him so he will have to deal with the string height which in the middle will be higher than what I like.

This is just an example of bad work from the start. A brand new bass with too much wood taken off the FB. The bridge was notched at about 24mm and arched too flat to bow as well.

Although I am not in the business of doing set-ups for DBs, I do however work on my own basses in that regard getting the exact heights and curves at both the nut and bridge as best as the bass in hand will allow.

The nut on this bass was so high I was able to slide the entire pad of paper under the strings and slide it across. I explained that my basses are 1 to 2 sheets of paper at most when I make adjustments. This one couldn't touch the pad at 12 sheets.

Why are basses so blindly ignored? Do they sell violins with such bad set-ups that only a strong man can press the notes down? I am a bit disappointed in how this bass was shipped with just supposedly the sound post needing to be installed. I had to fix a chip in it first yesterday so I haven't even checked if the post is usable.

Maybe we should force these idiots to PLAY the basses they ship that they expect others to play on. They should be punished. If this were a bass for my personal use it would need a new fingerboard before anything else is done.

People, be very careful buying basses mail-order like this one was. Also, the reviews you see are often from people that don't know the difference. I don't care what style music you play, this bass has no chance without some expensive set-up work and for professional use and in my opinion it needs a fingerboard. That would run in total more than half of what the bass was sold for new and not worth doing.

Shame on those people shipping out basses that can't be played.

[Ken McKay]

Ken, we (local luthiers) see this all the time cellos and basses especially but also with violins and viola. I think the factories are both uninformed as well as compromising because no single set up is good for every season and string type. This becomes more important with the bigger instruments. A fingerboard that is too flat from the start is just bad.

I check every new instrument I sell for proper set up before I send it out. A lot of cellos need fingerboard work, all basses do, most violas violins need nut work. And then when I see them back in a year or two I can determine how green they were by the unreasonable warping. That is where I learn what companies/factories produce the best instruments. Shen for example is GOOD.

Judge: "You are sentenced to play this instrument for one orchestra season!" Gavel slam.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Ken McKay

Ken, we (local luthiers) see this all the time cellos and basses especially but also with violins and viola. I think the factories are both uninformed as well as compromising because no single set up is good for every season and string type. This becomes more important with the bigger instruments. A fingerboard that is too flat from the start is just bad.

I check every new instrument I sell for proper set up before I send it out. A lot of cellos need fingerboard work, all basses do, most violas violins need nut work. And then when I see them back in a year or two I can determine how green they were by the unreasonable warping. That is where I learn what companies/factories produce the best instruments. Shen for example is GOOD.

Judge: "You are sentenced to play this instrument for one orchestra season!" Gavel slam.

Yes but they are NOT allowed to set-it up at all. Must be played AS shipped.. lol .. Band aides NOT included. 10 lashes by whip for all notes played wrong or missed. 8 lashes for each not played out of tune. The lashing will take longer than each rehearsal or concert. Get that guy some new skin..