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Old 11-24-2010, 07:42 PM
Derrick Fernandez Derrick Fernandez is offline
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Default back to life?

Hello all.

I have a few questions for the experts and knowledgeable about a bass I recently picked up.

Let me start by saying that i'm guessing that it is either a Tyrolean blockless or Bohemian, from 1850-1900, it is unlabeled other than a mark saying it was restored in 1925. I'm probably way off about the region and i'm fully prepared to get flamed.

In the side by side pic you can see it is a smaller scale than my 1930's German, in fact the scale is only 39" so it's either a 5/8 or 1/2. The body is also smaller but not hugely so.

Right now i'm planning on having it looked over and setup to play as is, but I have this crazy idea that it would be neat to have a new neck/block installed (scroll retained) to lengthen the scale to 40.5", have the bass bar replaced if it is integrated, new fingerboard and bridge as well.

Is this something that is common or is a silly idea based on the smaller body size, which would probably limit it's appeal to many players?

Opinions?

Thank you.
D
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  #2  
Old 11-24-2010, 10:35 PM
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Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
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Lightbulb ???

[quote=wayne holmes;21106][/qoute]

Replying to some quotes from Wayne;

Quote:
From the general appearance of your bass, if looks like it has great potential. Love the shape of the top.
This looks as you suspect a Blockless bass originally. Looking inside will tell if it's still blockless. Potential for a small bass of this grade is less than a 3/4 or full size of its day. It can sound sweet but don't expect it to be more than it is. Old and good are not always related. A full professional restoration for a Bass like this will exceed its value by maybe double. Keep that in mind.

Quote:
In my opinion, it will be helpful, if you will give us all the measurements of the bass. This, to me, would make a difference in the way I would approach the time and money spent on the bass. Also, it would be helpful to know what you plan on doing with the bass once it is playable.

Not 100% sure but I think you can click on Bob Gollihur and with the measurements find out what size it is. Or, just post the dimensions and we can tell you the size. Going by the scale length, it would be , as you say, a half or 5/8.
There was no such thing as a 5/8 size bass when this was made. The measurements on Bob's site refer to modern school basses, for playing in school. That's who made up these groups of numbers, the string associations from the Schools. By their numbers, the Nut is so high that I would give up playing if that was the final set-up. Don't go by commercial sizes. Measurements would be best to post here.

Quote:
I would encourage you to keep everything original and not chage out the neck. You could have a nice find here. It might make a good jazz bass-with a pick-up the size wouldn't make that much difference.
If blockless, put a block in. If integral bar, put a bar in. If possible, the neck might be savable but to lengthen it, you need a graft and it will probably be a bass size bigger, possibly a larger heel but surely an Eb heel stop. This was a cheaply made bass in its time. The original work is what made it look 2-3x its age by now. Modify it if you want to make a better bass out of this old wood.

Quote:
Since it has inlayed purfling and flamed wood, it would not be the cheapest model made in its day. A 1925 restoration would make the bass pretty old. I would guess that is would have been a minimum of 50 years old before if would need restoring. No way to tell for sure.
Purfling back then and maybe some slightly flamed wood (the back shows a slight flame but not the ribs so look inside the bass to see if it's really flamed!) would cost just a tad more than a stripped down model. As far as restoration periods, a bass gets fixed when it is needed and when the owner can afford it. Cheap German basses then could come over here and fall apart within a year or two. The can now as well if the wood is not dried or if changing drastically to a different climate. The 50 year assumption I do NOT buy at all. On the other hand, a well made master grade bass might go 100 years or more before needing work. My Gilkes did and my Hart went over half a century between restorations. Cheap basses fall apart. Good ones usually don't.

Wayne, I am sorry to disagree with you so strongly but in my world, if it ain't right, make it right. My personal blockless bass is in a top mold right now getting pressed out. It will get everything I suggested to him and more but with the exception of the neck lengthening. My string length is actually 43" so it will get shortened. Same scroll, repaired as needed, neck graft, neck block, fingerboard and all else including back repairs, rib repairs, corner block repairs, etc. Cost? I will be lucky to get away with anything near $10k in the retail world, probably closer to $15k. Being it's a 7/8ths bass (or full 3/4 or full size back then) and having a huge and sweet sound beforehand, this bass will be made Orchestra ready and will have a much higher value than the 1/2 sized version of other similar old blockless basses. Otherwise, I would have never bought it in the first place.

Word to the wise here. If you don't know what a bass needs, how much it will cost to get it professionally restored including modifications and what it is worth when done, then don't gable with old broken basses. Buy stocks! At least then you're in the same boat with all the other winners and losers and not alone with a single project.

I don't know stocks so well but I do know basses. I will pull money from my mutual funds to buy the right bass but I will not sell off basses to buy mutual funds. Do what you know. It's safer..
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Old 11-24-2010, 11:26 PM
Derrick Fernandez Derrick Fernandez is offline
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Default Measurements

Thanks Wayne and Ken for the excellent responses.

Yes the bass is small but it has a very nice shape and the top has a much larger bulge than my larger German shop. The wood is also quite thin, back 1/8", top is .25" at the edges. It has thin purfling on the top and back.

From the outside the sides appear to have flame but I can't be 100% sure i'm seeing the flame on the inside of the ribs.

Body length-40.5"
Top bout-18.75"
Bottom Bout-24"
Depth-7.75"

In any case I didn't spend too much, $700 including the bridge and a ancient bow which has had a really odd repair and pretty much unusable.

The shape and size is very nice, cosmeticaly not so much. The fingerboard paint (yes it was painted) is flaking off as well as some of the finish. There are a few cracks here and there but nothing open or terrinble looking to my untrained eye.

Anyway being a jazz player (of sorts) I would really like to get this bass playing again and I know it will not be an inexpensive task.
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  #4  
Old 11-25-2010, 05:22 AM
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Thomas Erickson Thomas Erickson is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick Fernandez View Post
Thanks Wayne and Ken for the excellent responses.

Yes the bass is small but it has a very nice shape and the top has a much larger bulge than my larger German shop. The wood is also quite thin, back 1/8", top is .25" at the edges. It has thin purfling on the top and back.

From the outside the sides appear to have flame but I can't be 100% sure i'm seeing the flame on the inside of the ribs.

Body length-40.5"
Top bout-18.75"
Bottom Bout-24"
Depth-7.75"

In any case I didn't spend too much, $700 including the bridge and a ancient bow which has had a really odd repair and pretty much unusable.

The shape and size is very nice, cosmeticaly not so much. The fingerboard paint (yes it was painted) is flaking off as well as some of the finish. There are a few cracks here and there but nothing open or terrinble looking to my untrained eye.

Anyway being a jazz player (of sorts) I would really like to get this bass playing again and I know it will not be an inexpensive task.
Oh, that's not bad at all - nice score!

Assuming there's nothing seriously unhealthy going on, you should be able to get it playable enough to see if you like the bass without breaking the bank, even if you have someone else do it for you.
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Old 11-25-2010, 12:46 PM
Derrick Fernandez Derrick Fernandez is offline
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Default Happy Thanksgiving!

I'm thankful for this wonderful forum, the advice and offers.

Sorry if my posting raised anyone's blood pressure today, surely was not my intent.

Okay I know this bass wasn't made by a master craftsman but I love it regardless, it has character in spades, is in great shape, and deserves better than to languish unplayed as it has for the past 50 years (or so i'm told by the seller).

As I mentioned before it would be great to have all the work that Ken mentioned done (even though it would exceed the value), but I think the 1st step is to have it inspected, set-up and playing to get a sense of the tonal quality.

Thanks to all!
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Old 11-25-2010, 02:52 PM
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Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick Fernandez View Post
I'm thankful for this wonderful forum, the advice and offers.

Sorry if my posting raised anyone's blood pressure today, surely was not my intent.

Okay I know this bass wasn't made by a master craftsman but I love it regardless, it has character in spades, is in great shape, and deserves better than to languish unplayed as it has for the past 50 years (or so i'm told by the seller).

As I mentioned before it would be great to have all the work that Ken mentioned done (even though it would exceed the value), but I think the 1st step is to have it inspected, set-up and playing to get a sense of the tonal quality.

Thanks to all!
Everything's cool. Just a little adult ribbing going on..lol

I agree that you should get a test of the tone but in my experiences, the post-restoration tone is usually different. The bass is currently in a state that it's been in for the longest time and I refer to this as its 'relaxed state', good or bad. I will mention a few basses of mine that I was able to play before it was restored or modified. Some of them I played for awhile as-is and some just a few minutes as it was ready to explode with the strings tightened.

My Blockless sounded good but was in bad shape internally as it was made. It is still in repair. Two others include my Hart, and Gilkes basses which are both classics. One was in the same condition for more then a lifetime and getting worse while the other was falling apart and barely playable. After both restorations, it took about 2 years in my opinion till everything settled and gelled back to that old relaxed sound it had before, only better. I have several more basses to discuss if asked that are both post restoration and still on the bench but will save that for another time.

If you like the bass and see its potential, do the work, all of it. In the end, the sound of the bass may easily exceed its pedigree or lack thereof.
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Old 11-26-2010, 12:06 PM
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Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
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Arrow Cleaning..

Ok, I am deleting and cleaning up this thread ridding it of off topic and off color comments. Those that quoted any of the comments and replied I deleted as well to keep it clean and on-topic for the original poster Derrick.
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