Pirastro Permanents

[stan haskins]

I'm planning a switch to Pirastro Permanents soon (mainly cause my teacher uses 'em, and I like how his bass sounds).

I was considering Flexicors or Bel Cantos, but my gut's telling me they'll both be too dark for my bass - I want it to project as well as possible.

ANyone have any good/bad experience with the Permanents? ANy other options I haven't considered?


Thanks.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by stan haskins

I'm planning a switch to Pirastro Permanents soon (mainly cause my teacher uses 'em, and I like how his bass sounds).

I was considering Flexicors or Bel Cantos, but my gut's telling me they'll both be too dark for my bass - I want it to project as well as possible.

ANyone have any good/bad experience with the Permanents? ANy other options I haven't considered?


Thanks.

I have used both new and old Permanents. They are not the best in my opinion and I don't know what too dark is. It's a Bass and not a Banjo so I go for the deepest sound possible on all my Basses.

For Bowing I like Flexocors but just now testing the Eurosonics, my Bisiach sounds smoother than my Gilkes and that should not be so. The Gilkes with a set of Flexocor regulars and the Bisiach with Euros. I just like them better for some reason. maybe it's the Bass and how different strings react on different Basses. You have to go with what works and does not. maybe if you list what you have tried in the past on that Bass and the results along with what changes you want to go for you can be better answered but for my money, these Eurosonics have a steel and gut sound combined that also bow and pizz well and feel super smooth under my left hand as well.

[JoeyNaeger]

The Belcantos are a pretty amazing string. You will get all the volume and projection you will ever need in orchetra section. They bow easier than the flex 92's I think and have more volume. I used to think brighter meant louder, but I'm finding with a darker string that I don't get lost in the mix as much. I enjoy the permanents as well though. They're a great all around string, and especially work well when soloing.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by JoeyNaeger

The Belcantos are a pretty amazing string. You will get all the volume and projection you will ever need in orchetra section. They bow easier than the flex 92's I think and have more volume. I used to think brighter meant louder, but I'm finding with a darker string that I don't get lost in the mix as much. I enjoy the permanents as well though. They're a great all around string, and especially work well when soloing.

The Pollmann I just bought has the Bel's on them and while they do everything thus said, still I think the Flex 92s have a sweeter color to the sound. Maybe some Basses prefer the lighter tension that the Bel's have but then again, some Basses work best with Flexs. After I get the Pollmann back from Arnold I will finally have a chance to put some time into these Strings rather than just a few Bow strokes like I have in the past.

[stan haskins]

One of my section partners uses the Bel Cantos - I like how they sound alot, very warm , with alot of "spread". I'm kind of going for a more aggressive, penetrating kind of sound now, if that makes sense. Without losing low end, though.

The only strings I've had on the Willow so far are heliocore Orchs. They fight the bow a little too much, but sound OK. I've really enjoyed playing Flexocores (sorry, Ken, I don't know what flavor) on other basses, but a few reliable sources have told me that they would probably be too dark for my bass, with the relatively soft willow construction.

Eurosonics sound like they might be another good option, though. I just don't like the sound of that "light tension". I might have to wait until the heavier ones are available.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by stan haskins

One of my section partners uses the Bel Cantos - I like how they sound alot, very warm , with alot of "spread". I'm kind of going for a more aggressive, penetrating kind of sound now, if that makes sense. Without losing low end, though.

The only strings I've had on the Willow so far are heliocore Orchs. They fight the bow a little too much, but sound OK. I've really enjoyed playing Flexocores (sorry, Ken, I don't know what flavor) on other basses, but a few reliable sources have told me that they would probably be too dark for my bass, with the relatively soft willow construction.

Eurosonics sound like they might be another good option, though. I just don't like the sound of that "light tension". I might have to wait until the heavier ones are available.

THEY call them Light Tension. I refer to them as Regular Tension and they feel fairly firm to me. The Medium Tension is on the heavier side for me and only slightly different. I have them on my Bisiach and they feel about the same as any other String tension wise, just easier to play.

[Brian Gencarelli]

Stan,

I use Permanents on my A and Low-C. They sound really good on my instrument. I have a very dark sounding bass, so they work well. The Low C is the best I have tried. The C just jumps off the bass!

I have Bel Canto G, and a Jargar Forte D. (Which I will probably switch out for a Bel Canto...) I don't really think I would like the Permanent G or D... but that would be too bright for my top strings...

The thing with the Permanents is, they start out like spirocores but then they darken in color. You have to be patient.

If you really want a "penetrating" sound, and you are playing a lot of solo rep, have you considered Corellis?

Brian

[stan haskins]

Corellis feel too soft, and lack power, on the basses I tried with them. IME, people who like Corellis usually like them because they are easier on the hands.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Brian Gencarelli]

Originally Posted by stan haskins

Corellis feel too soft, and lack power, on the basses I tried with them. IME, people who like Corellis usually like them because they are easier on the hands.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

True... but they are also thin bright. I used to use them for solo strings with my old bass. They are very easy to play, and if you are doing a lot of solo work, it may be worth it to use them.

I try not to play in solo tuning anymore, so... just orchestra strings for me.

BG

[stan haskins]

I'm not looking for solo strings - just orchestra string with projecting power. Think Berlin Phil under von Karajan.

I will start with the perms this summer, then make adjustments as necessary.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by stan haskins

I'm not looking for solo strings - just orchestra string with projecting power. Think Berlin Phil under von Karajan.

I will start with the perms this summer, then make adjustments as necessary.

FLEXOCOR, ANY of the styles and which ever works best on you Bass including the Original Flat Chrome. Perms sound goof on the E and E when broken in but the G and D are thin sounding. Mix with a Flexocor type on the top. You can thank me later!

Belcantos are getting raves as well these days and have them on my Pollmann which I haven't yet picked up. They were nice when I played them but tonally I still prefer Pirastros of any styles just mentioned. I spent over a year testing these FOR Pirastro a short time ago putting various sets on some of my Basses and have used every variety in an Orchestra setting. The newer the Bass, the better the string needed to compensate for lack of mellowed age. Even the best of the new handmade Basses need the right string to work.

[stan haskins]

The Permanents are pretty good right out of the box. They sound alot more "brilliant" then what I'm used to (Heliocores - won't be going back to those), and I hope that translates into "penetrating" or "projecting" in a big room. They still have a good deep fundamental tone, though. . . .

They're lower tension than what I expected, which I guess might end up being a good thing in the long run (and my bass seems to like it). I think I'm going to miss a little tension under the bow, though.

[Brian Gencarelli]

Originally Posted by stan haskins

The Permanents are pretty good right out of the box. They sound alot more "brilliant" then what I'm used to (Heliocores - won't be going back to those), and I hope that translates into "penetrating" or "projecting" in a big room. They still have a good deep fundamental tone, though. . . .

They're lower tension than what I expected, which I guess might end up being a good thing in the long run (and my bass seems to like it). I think I'm going to miss a little tension under the bow, though.

Stan,

Now that you've had them on the bass for a while, how are you liking the perms?

[stan haskins]

I like them. For some reason, it's easiest for me to describe tone and timbre as color: the Permanents have more bright blue in them. They are pretty responsive to the bow, and are definitely louder than the Heliocores were (which had more reddish/lavender tone to them).

The sound is not as "rounded out" as I eventually want it to be, but they will easily do for a while . . . maybe I'll try something else next year.

I'm planning to put some new recordings up early this summer, I'll let you know when I do.

[Brenton Carter]

"The Permanents are pretty good right out of the box. They sound alot more "brilliant" then what I'm used to (Heliocores - won't be going back to those), and I hope that translates into "penetrating" or "projecting" in a big room. They still have a good deep fundamental tone, though. . . .

They're lower tension than what I expected, which I guess might end up being a good thing in the long run ..."

in my own experience and upon my teacher's advice, thomastik is a bit hit and miss: their quality assurance doesn't seem to be as good as pirastro, especially with helicores. i've played on some helicore that sounded 3 years old and others that sounded okay... something i'd recommend for a student to stay away from.

permanents were nice on my bass. they were really well balanced across and very even when extending in the upper registers. plenty of power all over too. they are one of the best sets of strings (if not the best i've experienced) for standing out a little bit in your section: if your sound doesn't have the bite to stand out. and a little less tension on your top is good for your bass. if it's too low, you can mix them with some Original Flat Chrome on the bass side... might be unbalanced though.

they do have initially alot of nice ring to them, but after a while mine sort of seemed dead and made my bass sound more "woody" than i'd like it to (a sound that has become pretty unpopular with some recent audition committees).

i've been using flexocores and will probably remind my ears how permanents sound sometime soon.

...my cents

[Eric Hochberg]

I think your confused here, Brenton. Helicores are made by D'Addario, not Thomastik. Also, what is this "woody" thing you and audition committees don't like? That is the term many bassists use to describe an ideal sound.

[Brenton Carter]

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

I think your confused here, Brenton. Helicores are made by D'Addario, not Thomastik. Also, what is this "woody" thing you and audition committees don't like? That is the term many bassists use to describe an ideal sound.

right! whoops. thanks for the correction... all the same, though.

i prefer some ring to the strings as well as that deep, chocolate tone. when my permanents needed changing they seemed to have a "woody" tone which i'm not necessarily saying that's what happened in auditions... i wasn't there, but that's the rumor i was joking about from the talkbass forums.

regardless, i think that any string set needs the right person and the right bass. permanents were right for me and i would recommend them.

[Richard Prowse]

My Bel Canti are sounding pretty good right now - nice and dark down low. Well, defined up high, though they have a tendency to 'squeak' if I don't bow them just right, with plenty of right hand pressure - I guess that's probably my problem, or the height of my setup (a little high in thumb pos.), but the Weichs don't seem to do that on my other bass.
Added later: Yes, the squeaking is me, not the strings. Sorry.