Violin vs Gamba vs Busetto

[Gareth Hughes]

Hello all -

Maybe a redundant question to ask but....

Can anyone enlighten me to the difference in sound between Violin, Gamba and Busetto shaped basses?

Is it purely aesthetics or is there more to it?

Thanks, Gareth

[Jeff Moote]

Originally Posted by Gareth Hughes

Hello all -

Maybe a redundant question to ask but....

Can anyone enlighten me to the difference in sound between Violin, Gamba and Busetto shaped basses?

Is it purely aesthetics or is there more to it?

Thanks, Gareth

I'm going to say that there is no "Gamba" bass sound or "violin corner" bass sound... all basses are going to sound different and this is one of the many construction factors that may or may not have an effect. It certainly doesn't define anything on its own though.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

Busetto corners are nothing but a cosmetic gimmick.

[Gareth Hughes]

So no real reason other than visual design for the different shapes?

I've always liked Violin corners more, purely from the visual side of things. An instrument should make you want to play it. (Not that my Gamba laminate puts me off).

I know the sound is the most important aspect at the end of the day, but I still have a thing for design too. Which is a good thing or else my EB luthier would have won me over with his arguments for a headless Steinberger style bass

[Ken Smith]

If you look inside two or three Basses with the Tops off you will see the inner space where the linings curve up to the blocks and with the general inner contour you will see that the shape inside is almost the same on all these models. The Violin model has some steeper curves into the corners but that is about it. Gamba and Busetto are more similar. There isn't that much difference except that the beauty of the Violin form causes extra bends of the ribs possible making the Bass stiffer.

The only shape that makes a huge difference I think is the Cornerless/guitar design with no corners or blocks at all. This pattern vibrates more freely followed by the Gamba and then the Violin model.

When a Bass is 100-200 years old, it has 'shook' itself loose fairly well and vibrates more freely, hopefully! You must compare Basses of similar model, size, age and Back construction in order to single out the Corners to make comparisons. With so many variables, who's to say where the differences are coming from?

[Ken Smith]

If I was having a new Bass made I would request the Cornerless design for its free style vibration form and added depth..

No wait.. I want a beautiful Violin Model like a Maggini with a huge sound and fancy woods...

No no.. wait.. I want a large Gamba so my Bow doesn't 'whack' the Corners like on the Violin model and with huge proportions and a string length of under 42"...

Wait.. I think I have those already.. Oops... Never Mind...

What was the question again?

[Jeff Moote]

I was going to mention something about cornerless designs, but I knew Ken's post was coming and he knows much more than I do

[Gareth Hughes]

It's the agony of choice

Thanks for all your answers. Have to admit that I was feeling somewhat the newbie in asking that question, and was fully expecting someone to reply like I was their annoying kid brother trying to hang out with the older kids. But I wanted to know, so thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge.

[David Powell]

Originally Posted by Jeff Moote

I was going to mention something about cornerless designs, but I knew Ken's post was coming and he knows much more than I do

Don't let it stop you, be brave young man!

As for me, the biggest difference is that I like the Gambas visually, but the variety of shapes is really one of the wonderful things about basses. It's great to be able to look at a whole page of basses and see no two that look exactly alike in outline.

[Ken Smith]

Guys n Gals, Corners are less important overall in comparison the the actual size and measurements of the Bass, not to mention the woods, quality of build and internal graduations. I would be more concerned about those points before I think about the Corner types.

I played my Bisiach labeled Bass last night and it has a nice punchy sound but it's not as deep and thick sounding at my Martini sitting next to it in my rack. Both Basses have similar form, shape and size but sound completely different. Why is that? Well.. because... They are two different Basses, different woods and made differently from what the eye can see.

Both Violin corners so that can't be the difference then can it?

[Gareth Hughes]

All true points Ken. Didn't mean for this to be a -my shape is better than your shape- style thread. It's just one of those many mysteries of our fine instrument that I'd always been curious about. Probably shouldn't have titled the thread 'Gamba Vs. Violin... - Should really have been - Is there an audible difference is bass shapes?

No one shape is better than the other. If a shape/sound doesn't do what you want it to do then it's not the 'best' for that job.

Or to quote my grandfather - A penny more than you need and you're rich. A penny less and you're poor. -

I think it would be a shame if our instruments went the way of the Formula 1 racing cars. No variation or flair. Rewind back to early last century and race cars came in all shapes and sizes. Then again maybe this ****ogy highlights that difference - our instruments are not about competing with each other, whereas car racing is all about the competition so all things have to be equal (or as equal as possible )

I digress.

[Ken Smith]

The title and questions are perfectly fine to ask here. My points are more of an educational type nature as most people do not see the un-obvious points when making comparisons. My intention is to point these out in a respectful and educational manner and not a slap on the wrist type reply at all.

Makers themselves have to experiment to make a good Bass one after the other. Even when trying to make a copy with the master's example in front of them, it's not so easy to do so and get the same results. Plenty of unknowns still exist along with a little magic as well.

[Gareth Hughes]

No slap on the wrist felt at all. The education available on this forum is a goldmine of information and genuinely appreciated. I've been playing DB for about 9 years and I've learnt more about the instrument in the past few months reading here than I had previously.

[Tom Martin]

And Ken seems to have a great sense of humor too !!! (see msg. #6)

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Tom Martin

And Ken seems to have a great sense of humor too !!! (see msg. #6)

Sense of humor?

Who me?

Who said that?

Speaking of this topic which has been laid to rest for almost 3 years, let me say that what ever I said in post #6 as referred to above, is no longer 100% true.

I have decided to have a bass made, copying the cornerless bass I have with beautiful woods BUT violin corners added. Not big corners but something to make it look right.

I sold my BIG Gamba bass but got another one recently, not quite as big in size or sound but fitting in an orchestra. The other one was a bit big for me and when playing it I couldn't hear a thing around me but me!

My current Gamba is a normal volume deep sounding old Bavarian bass made for the orchestra for normal sized humans.. Like me!

Anyway, I still love all of the bass regardless of their size of shape. It's just that some are easier to play certain things on.

My main Orchestra bass now is the Hart and my secondary bass is the Bavarian/Mittenwald Gamba that works just as good for Jazz. I did a concert a few weeks ago with an Orchestra featuring a famous Trumpet player that threw in two jazz tunes, a ballad and a big band number. From the 2nd chair (of 4) I played those two tunes thru an amp as if playing in a big band with strings and woodwinds. The drums were at my right surrounded by 4 basses. The other 3 basses didn't play but a few bowed whole notes on those tunes but tapped their feet to make sure I was doing my job correctly.. The Gamba bass did just fine with bow and without.

So, Gamba or Violin corners or none at all, play and have some fun.

[Thomas Erickson]

Seems like kind of a tough call -

On one hand, violin corners are very elegant; well executed they add a lot of visual appeal to a bass and can show off the maker's skills, but I tend to think that given the long and rough life most basses lead the exposed corners are a liability not only to themselves but more importantly the rest of the top and back plates. They're also going to make an already expensive instrument even harder for the musician to afford.

Perhaps the cornerless design has a lot going for it, but it seems to me like there would be some problems just in moving the bass around, resting it on a chair, etc. Also, it kind of demands that the ribs be made in one long piece, calling for bigger wood and leaving a chance (I think) for worse (maybe just more unusual) damage as the long ribs crack along the length; although, the smooth sides might avoid getting knocked around so much and avoid damage, I dunno. And, the cornerless bass just looks odd, IMO. Not bad, just... odd. I don't need any more attention at the gig, do you?

Busetto corners - well, they look fine, but they sure don't do anything for the bass except add to the cost, and probably complicate repairs down the road.

So... I tend to favor gamba shapes. I really like the idea used in Arnold's ergonomic bass though, with just the top corners as a concession to practicality and tradition.

[Samuel Budnyk]

Who's making your bass, Ken?

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Sense of humor?

Who me?

Who said that?

Speaking of this topic which has been laid to rest for almost 3 years, let me say that what ever I said in post #6 as referred to above, is no longer 100% true.

I have decided to have a bass made, copying the cornerless bass I have with beautiful woods BUT violin corners added. Not big corners but something to make it look right.

I sold my BIG Gamba bass but got another one recently, not quite as big in size or sound but fitting in an orchestra. The other one was a bit big for me and when playing it I couldn't hear a thing around me but me!

My current Gamba is a normal volume deep sounding old Bavarian bass made for the orchestra for normal sized humans.. Like me!

Anyway, I still love all of the bass regardless of their size of shape. It's just that some are easier to play certain things on.

My main Orchestra bass now is the Hart and my secondary bass is the Bavarian/Mittenwald Gamba that works just as good for Jazz. I did a concert a few weeks ago with an Orchestra featuring a famous Trumpet player that threw in two jazz tunes, a ballad and a big band number. From the 2nd chair (of 4) I played those two tunes thru an amp as if playing in a big band with strings and woodwinds. The drums were at my right surrounded by 4 basses. The other 3 basses didn't play but a few bowed whole notes on those tunes but tapped their feet to make sure I was doing my job correctly.. The Gamba bass did just fine with bow and without.

So, Gamba or Violin corners or none at all, play and have some fun.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Samuel Budnyk

Who's making your bass, Ken?

Arnold Schnitzer, the guy that is restoring the original. He has the birdseye view of what I want and makes great basses besides. I just want one that is ALL mine.. lol