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  #81  
Old 10-08-2010, 09:02 PM
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A couple years ago I was with my daughter, watching one of the first (earliest) "Concerts for Young People" DVDs that the NYPhil put out. I noticed that there was a cornerless bass near the far end of the section. This particular film was from the very late 50s or very early 60s.

I wrote the archivist at the orchestra, hoping to figure out who was playing that bass. While the (kind, patient, remarkably helpful) archivist provided a interesting, comprehensive list of all the section members (and the various orchestras that evolved into the NYPhil), he could not tell me anything about the instruments themselves.

So, the pear-shaped instrument that was in that section went somewhere. Anyone know who plays it now?

Whoever was playing it in the NYPhil was definitely not the same player in the Chet Atkins clip. If it was the same person, he dramatically changed his left hand technique for the other gig .
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  #82  
Old 10-08-2010, 11:52 PM
Dave Martin Dave Martin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
Wow, who is that guy playing the Cornerless bass and where is that thing now. That bass is way way out of his league..

It looks a bit like my bass but I doubt that it is. I think..

Me next to a girl when I was 2 or 3 years old?
I've posted a link to the video to a group of the old Nashville recording industry folks, but I haven't had a response yet. One session drummer suggested that the clip might have been from a show called "Midwestern Hayride", which was broadcast from Cincinnati, but so far, I haven't had a good answer as to who the player was.

I know - I'll ask Bob Moore...
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  #83  
Old 10-09-2010, 10:23 AM
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That's Ernie Newton playing bass. I haven't yet found out more about his bass.

Last edited by Dave Martin; 10-09-2010 at 12:10 PM.
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  #84  
Old 10-09-2010, 10:44 AM
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Question ??

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Originally Posted by Dave Martin View Post
if y'all don't know who Bob Moore is, you should do a search; you could make a pretty strong argument that Bob invented country bass. He started his session career in 1949 and played on something around 10,000 sessions, including the ones that gave us all of Patsy Cline's hits, all of Marty Robbins' hits and even the Elvis records that were recorded in Nashville, like "Teddy Bear". He also played on records by Jim Reeves, Johnny Horton, Roy Orbison, Ray Price, Brenda Lee, Paul Simon (that's him on The Boxer) and a zillion others. And by the way, he still plays great. But I digress...

According to Bob,that's Ernie Newton playing bass, Louis Ennis on rhythm guitar and Marvin Hughes on piano. Ernie played with (among others) Bill Monroe, Earl Scruggs, The Osborne Brothers and Kitty Wells. In other words, he's a more seasoned (and better) bassist than this video makes it appear. I'm trying to find out now if Ernie is still alive, and what happened to the bass.
Ok, but unless he was known for playing a Cornerless bass, this isn't the place to talk about him. Show me a picture of him with an Italian or Spanish Guitar shaped bass and then we are in business..

I don't think the population of Italian or Spanish basses has any familiarity at all with the names mentioned above, sorry.
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  #85  
Old 10-09-2010, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
Ok, but unless he was known for playing a Cornerless bass, this isn't the place to talk about him. Show me a picture of him with an Italian or Spanish Guitar shaped bass and then we are in business..

I don't think the population of Italian or Spanish basses has any familiarity at all with the names mentioned above, sorry.
Well, Ken, Ernie Newton WAS playing a cornerless bass in the video. Nevertheless, I'll remove the reference. It's your forum, after all.
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  #86  
Old 10-09-2010, 12:17 PM
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Thumbs up lol

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Originally Posted by Dave Martin View Post
Well, Ken, Ernie Newton WAS playing a cornerless bass in the video. Nevertheless, I'll remove the reference. It's your forum, after all.
Ok, thank's for clearing that up.

Those that may have played an old Cornerless bass or two from the 18th or 19th century will have a special affinity for them. They seem to vibrate a bit more freely than basses with corners of any type. They are also very awkward to carry but not to play.
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  #87  
Old 10-18-2010, 05:18 PM
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Maybe it has been covered and I missed it - but -

What is the thinking on corner blocks for these corner-less basses? Do the existing ones have them? If not, should they? I'm not sure why really, I like the look, but the whole idea of a corner-less bass seems to me like a flexible-flyer kind of deal... heheh...

As far as practicality with no corners, that is in terms of carrying/leaning and also playing I suppose, is it actually difficult to live with? Or just a matter of getting used to...

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  #88  
Old 10-18-2010, 05:46 PM
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Lightbulb well..

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Originally Posted by Thomas Erickson View Post
Maybe it has been covered and I missed it - but -

What is the thinking on corner blocks for these corner-less basses? Do the existing ones have them? If not, should they? I'm not sure why really, I like the look, but the whole idea of a corner-less bass seems to me like a flexible-flyer kind of deal... heheh...

As far as practicality with no corners, that is in terms of carrying/leaning and also playing I suppose, is it actually difficult to live with? Or just a matter of getting used to...

I guess I will try answering one thought at a time with some modulation as necessary.

Cornerless means basically no corners. Blocks as Corner Blocks will not be needed as there are no corners to glue to the blocks. I have watched many basses in progress being made and they are built from the Blocks and then onward.

Ass far as leaning a bass, in modern times in Orchestra leaning a bass on a chair is normal. Wedging it in the corner is ok for one bass but where do you get 8 corners to lean the section of bass?.. lol.. Then, there is just laying it down on its side which is what I have had to do on most occasions when taking this beast of mine out for a job.

I have seen some basses made with one piece ribs per side but had pasted/glued-on outer corner blocks but they were slightly rounded, not sharp at the edges. They also had corners on the top and back. The inside of the ribs were smooth all around on the one I examined internally. One bass I saw had corners on the plates, smooth one piece ribs and small blocks, 8 of them, glued to the ribs and under each corner of the top and back. They were beautifully scalloped and the curves of the chisel matched the button of the scroll. These ribs were scored inside to help bending and the linings were scored as well. This was a Guitar maker in my mind without any doubt.

Of all the cornerless basses I have seen in person and pictured, they look to me like an elongated guitar, shaped between a violin and viola d'gamba in form. This was the way the Italians made them. Many of the Luthiers were cross trained in Guitars, Mandolins, Viols and Violins as well.

The ribs on one bass I saw that were in excellent overall condition and scored internally were from a hard wood that was not at all thin. This helped I am sure keep the bass stable over the years. Another one that I own has laminated ribs of an original design. Vertical grained spruce with the grain running from top to back, bent all around in 2 pieces joining at the upper and lower blocks with a thinner outer layer of burled hard maple.

This is a very old bass and I do not see any deformity in the bass due to the cornerless design. It must have been made very well although nontraditional for the violin school. More of a cross-over design. This is one of the best sounding basses I have ever heard in my life, period.

Now, on carrying one of these basses with no corners at all, you have only the fingerboard and neck to grab for lifting and moving. Not so easy but you can get used to it.
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  #89  
Old 10-18-2010, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Cornerless means basically no corners. Blocks as Corner Blocks will not be needed as there are no corners to glue to the blocks. I have watched many basses in progress being made and they are built from the Blocks and then onward.
Thanks Ken, that's pretty much what I was getting at. Interesting.
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  #90  
Old 10-18-2010, 11:37 PM
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Thanks Ken, that's pretty much what I was getting at. Interesting.
You need to play a few of these old classics. I have seen so many of them pictured but only played on a few. They are amongst best sounding old basses I have played.
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  #91  
Old 08-13-2011, 09:47 AM
Eric Hochberg Eric Hochberg is offline
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Just found this one. Looks new?

http://www.seccioncontrabajo.com/e-s...76312193260a38
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  #92  
Old 08-13-2011, 11:56 AM
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Question Michele Deconet 1765??

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Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg View Post
Michele Deconet was known as a great Venetian Luthier but a Bass by him is doubtful. In one book actually the authors research leads him to believe that Deconet didn't make anything but did buy instruments from various makers, some of them lesser known makers and used his own label in them to sell. The gears look German, early 20th century. It might be a new Hungarian antiqued bass. The Scroll looks a bit modern to me. I am not convinced this bass has a chance to be as marked.

Last edited by Ken Smith; 08-14-2011 at 03:08 PM. Reason: Deconet Link added..
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  #93  
Old 08-13-2011, 02:02 PM
Nathan Parker Nathan Parker is offline
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The button on the scroll looks pretty interesting, as do the F holes. I wish I could read the language that the description is written in. Has anyone played any of these fakes? I wonder if they sound any good, or how well made they are.
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  #94  
Old 08-13-2011, 10:40 PM
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Looks fake to me - no way a gnarly slab cut top that old is going to be in such good condition, and the scroll definitely doesn't look right.

I'm curious if the machines they're putting on these basses are also "reproductions" or if they're being plundered from someplace.
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  #95  
Old 08-13-2011, 11:05 PM
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Exclamation the fakes..

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Originally Posted by Nathan Parker View Post
The button on the scroll looks pretty interesting, as do the F holes. I wish I could read the language that the description is written in. Has anyone played any of these fakes? I wonder if they sound any good, or how well made they are.
I have seen, played, bought, sold and had restored some of these antiqued basses. The ones I sold were with full disclosure so no guilt there. I can't say that for some of the other dealers that have tried to pass fakes for something 'possibly' original. I offer no forgiveness for deliberate deception.

The sound can be quite good like any bass can if well made and designed but in the antiquing process, this is were the quality can fail. If you find a bass that is an antiqued fake and you like it, consider buying it like any other bass IF, the price is right AND, you know everything if anything has to be fixed and DO consider that within the price of the bass when making your deal or offer.

Do NOT buy it because it LOOKS like an old Italian bass and in 'La La Land' it might be. Believe me, if it IS the real deal, the Dealer will NOT be vague about IT or the price. A $200k bass for only $50K because it is not 100% certified as that exact maker? Doubtful.

Ever try and beat a used Car dealer at HIS game? Good luck with that!
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  #96  
Old 08-22-2011, 05:46 AM
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Nice post.
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  #97  
Old 07-16-2012, 02:03 AM
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Here's an odd one for the collection.

The pic comes from Patkolo's facebook pages ... the guy holding the cornerless bass with the archtop guitar/mandolin style FFs is tagged as Andrew Eungi Lee, a Korean bassist.

I know nothing more about it than this. It doesn't look old to me.

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  #98  
Old 07-17-2012, 09:23 PM
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Cool old?

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Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker View Post
Here's an odd one for the collection.

The pic comes from Patkolo's facebook pages ... the guy holding the cornerless bass with the archtop guitar/mandolin style FFs is tagged as Andrew Eungi Lee, a Korean bassist.

I know nothing more about it than this. It doesn't look old to me.

Thanks for posting this Matt. It looks a bit on the crude side so it can be something made recently to look old or its it is old, we just can't tell from this shot. My guess is that unless he has available fund$$ or someone else does, a school or family member, this is not the real thing.

This is the 2nd cornerless I have seen recently that is probably faked to look old. The other one is in a famous shop with a famous 18th century name attached. If it is authentic, then it has a replaced scroll, replaced back (looks brand new), replaced antiqued ribs and a replaced top. So, did I leave anything out?..
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  #99  
Old 07-17-2012, 09:42 PM
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No I don't think it is old.

Nonetheless, it is still an authentic, real "guitar or pear-shaped" bass!
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  #100  
Old 07-17-2012, 11:12 PM
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No I don't think it is old.

Nonetheless, it is still an authentic, real "guitar or pear-shaped" bass!
Yes, it is indeed!
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