Smith Bass Design and its History (The on-line Book in the making)

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Jose Bichoff

Ken,

Can you comment on how much the Internet and technology advances changed your business and the bass making process itself over the past years? Thank you.

Business, yes. Making process, I would say not directly.

Remember that when I started we didn't even have cell phones yet. I learned how to balance a checkbook before we had personal calculators.

I have on my wall a 1985 5-string, one of the last NY Basses. Other than some dimension changes and model differences we still make them the same. We do have some improved processes mostly by choice but try improving on a 200 year old or more Violin, Cello or Double Bass!

It still takes hands and patience. If anything, modern tecnology has hurt quality hand made work. Too many machines with no eyes or feelings. Just shapes cut out with no soul in them.

Business wise with the Internet I have saved a ton on advertising for one. Second, I can make updates to the world in a flash of time.
Third, what's a catalog again?..

Email in itself has improved and sped up communications faster than I would have ever imagined. When I was getting my first Fax machine around 1989 I was told that electronic mail (email) would be the next thing coming to the world and make faxing almost obsolete. I had no idea at that time what they were referring to?
Put a mini preamp under the stamp on a letter??? huh?


Anyone know what a Typewriter is? I have one for sale..

The world is a smaller place now but two things that will never go out is 'hands-on' and 'word of mouth'. A product needs to almost sell itself with some basic explanation. You can't hard sell quality. Either you understand what you are looking at or you don't.

Just like 'Electronic Mail' when I first heard the term. You couldn't sell it to me if you were paying me because I have no clue what it was.
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By the way, I was moving some wood around downstairs in the storage area yesterday and within these tiger maple blocks I bought over 10 years ago I found some beautiful highly flamed Tiger blocks for the BT model as far as the length goes. So, we might make a special model soon to use this stuff.

"The BT Vintage White Tiger Elite" (TBVE). Exhibition grade Tiger Top and high figure backs, Quilted Maple Cores (12-18 year old stock), 12-18 year aged Walnut body features and sawn Walnut laminates, Ebony Head Cap, high figure Tiger/Shedua Heel cap neck-thru on back, Abalone inlaid top and side Dots and Logo (ala 25th), Maple/Shedua 5pc Neck, all the electronics of the Elite (at least) and.. The strap buttons, maybe Dual for longer strap hang (or flush on request). Basically the works on a 5pc body and neck like the first 25th models were.

Interested? Any takers?

We have longer BSR length Blocks as well but thought we would kick off this series with the older BT shape.

I would be glad to hear your comments or answer your questions on this.

[Anton Hasias]

Sounds nice,

I still have some questions:
- Will this be a limited edition, if yes how many pieces approx?
- Will be this edition crafted in 4,5 & 6 strings?
- Which is the price evaluation?
- Only 5/5 or also a possibility of 7/7 ?(as in my personal opinion the 7/7 sound definition is more precise and also offers to this BT model a beautiful ageless upper class status)
- When is it supposed to happen?

Anyway in case this will be a limited edition, please put me first on your list for the no.1 of the 6 strings model.

Best regards

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Anton Hasias

Sounds nice,

I still have some questions:
- Will this be a limited edition, if yes how many pieces approx?
- Will be this edition crafted in 4,5 & 6 strings?
- Which is the price evaluation?
- Only 5/5 or also a possibility of 7/7 ?(as in my personal opinion the 7/7 sound definition is more precise and also offers to this BT model a beautiful ageless upper class status)
- When is it supposed to happen?

Anyway in case this will be a limited edition, please put me first on your list for the no.1 of the 6 strings model.

Best regards

- Will this be a limited edition?.. Not sure yet. We have plenty of wood..

- Will be this edition crafted in 4,5 & 6 strings?.. Yes

- Which is the price evaluation?....... Not totally sure but similar to the Black Tiger Elite which is Elite$ plus Exhibition wood$

- Only 5/5 or also a possibility of 7/7 ?... For 7/7 I would move it to the 25th model and just go all the way.

- When is it supposed to happen?... We usually do stock bass making in the Summer when we are not so busy. I will make a group of 5s first most likely.

[Anton Hasias]

Ok, got it, but, in case of choosing a 25th, it will not be a BT6 model right, or...
Best regards

[Jose Bichoff]

Hi Ken and friends!

Ken, your basses are one of the finest things in the world. Building 5-string, 6-string and 7-string basses with stability and robustness certainly isn't an easy task for any builder, and among them you are not a follower but a leader, as you say.
My question: have you ever tried before with less strings, let's say 3-string or even 2-strings basses? (I've already seen some before and they are tuned by 5ths, and not by 4ths a regular bass... well, you can tune the way you want, but...).
Was there any idea that you decided to abandon because it was too 'weird'?(like this one)

(I still keep my typewriter too and I think you should do the same. We never know when anybody will come with a 'USB to Old Typewriter' stuff. Maybe Mike? He's the computer geek here, isn't he? In the mean time, I keep mine oiled and ready! )

Thanks,

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Jose Bichoff

Hi Ken and friends!

Ken, your basses are one of the finest things in the world. Building 5-string, 6-string and 7-string basses with stability and robustness certainly isn't an easy task for any builder, and among them you are not a follower but a leader, as you say.
My question: have you ever tried before with less strings, let's say 3-string or even 2-strings basses? (I've already seen some before and they are tuned by 5ths, and not by 4ths a regular bass... well, you can tune the way you want, but...).
Was there any idea that you decided to abandon because it was too 'weird'?(like this one)

(I still keep my typewriter too and I think you should do the same. We never know when anybody will come with a 'USB to Old Typewriter' stuff. Maybe Mike? He's the computer geek here, isn't he? In the mean time, I keep mine oiled and ready! )

Thanks,

In the history of the Double Bass, 3-string was quite common around the world from the 17th - 19th centuries before the 4-string slowly became the standard in the early 20th century. It went to 4-string for a reason. They needed the notes. Playing in 5ths was also tried, and then abandoned. There are a few that play in 5ths now but the normal is 4-string in 4ths. It is hard enough to play as it is now so I don't plan on making any bass with less than 4-strings and tuned in 4ths. I am a player first and I design from experience, not bad dreams..

[Jose Bichoff]

Just out of curiosity, would you describe, in each 100 basses made, how many percent are 4-string, 5, 6 and 7?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Jose Bichoff

Just out of curiosity, could you describe, in each 100 basses made, how many percent are 4-string, 5, 6 and 7?

Can I or will I?

More 5s than 6s but some years it's close. About 60/40 on average.

In the last 20 years or so the 4s average from 10% on the low end to 20% at the highest.

The 7s number only 49 to date in total. That is less than 3 a year since we made the first so that model is not in the mix. We make them when we have orders. We only make the 7s in the Elite version.

[Jose Bichoff]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Can I or will I?

Thanks for correcting me
Unlike wine or your basses, it seems that my English is not improving over time my bad
Hope you understand

[Ken Smith]

I Thought it would be time to post this here since I can't go there and make the corrections. Anyone here is welcomed to go on TB and copy/paste my corrections. Just a few here, nothing major but the facts are just wrong. I will post the phrase, correction and a link to that Post/Thread on TB so you can see and respond there (or here) if you like.
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From; http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f31/da...l#post11493393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Higdon
Dare I point this out? One former TB member was right in the thick of things, playing jazz on DB and switching to BG back when it was getting off the ground: Ken Smith.

"I remember that Ken was apprenticing for Carl Thompson back in the 70's. Carl had a shop (and still does) on Court street at his house in Brooklyn. Carl's musical heros are Jim Hall, Johnny Smith and Jackie Paris. Carl was a jazz guitarist who made the switch to electric bass late. When you say in the thick of things, is this what you mean, Don? His apprenticeship with Carl Thompson?"

Ah, I was never an apprentice of Carl Thompson or anyone else for that matter. I knew Carl, been to both the shops he had (NYC and Brooklyn) and even played a Duo gig with him once. I also borrowed his Band-saw once to make Spool Clamps cutting Pine Circles out for the clamps. I hung out at the shop socially as well in the early '70s in NYC when he started the shop but was NEVER his apprentice. I can see how one might think that shooting in the dark but with this lights on, we were just friends.
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From my buddy Don Higdon's mention of me being an early Doubler; http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f31/da...l#post11493827
Quote:
Originally Posted by salcott
Ken was active in the early 50s?

"Yes, he was very active, because that's when he was born.
On the basis of what he's said, he was in the NYC scene in the late 60's. He did start on DB and switch later. I'm sure he played DB when he was with Silver.
Steve Swallow didn't switch until 1970: Cranshaw was playing DB in the 60's, I don't know what year he switched. In any event, there were not that many BG's in jazz for years after the Fender was introduced."

I actually played my Fender 'P' bass with Horace Silver that I had scraped (literally) the Frets down flush with the Fretboard leaving only the Tang (the part that holds the Fret in the wood) showing as lines for the notes/positions.

I thank Don for mentioning that about me even with that minor correction.
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From a common error in the Smith/Fodera history; http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f30/yo...l#post11484579

"If I remember well the article in Bass Player mag, AJ said he wanted to go lower and lower while he was doing walking bass and he was struggling when going higher because he had to move up the neck on the G string. Carl Thombson didn't want his name associated with his crazy idea so he made what exacly AJ wanted resulting in a failliure. Ken Smith get what the idea of AJ more but it wasn't until Joey and Vinnie Fodera quit Ken Smith to make Fodera bass that the idea of AJ became really well made."

Ok, Joey (Lauricella) NEVER worked FOR me or for Ken Smith Basses. He was a customer in the first few years we produced basses and had bought about 5 basses from me at my Apartment/Shop on 13th street. He also brought a customer or two over to buy basses as well but not as a salesman either. Just to bring a friend over to buy. Later, he partnered with Fodera when I sold the shop and most of its contents to Vinnie and his two partners, Joey being one of them. We had unfinished basses, necks and body parts started and some orders to fill so I contracted them (mainly thru the 3rd partner of a short while that actually handled the business who is no longer there so I wont mention his name) to finish what was started so I could deliver the orders promised. In that time, I set up shop in PA by 1985 so the contracting phase between Fodera and Smith was less than 3 years. Less than 200 of the first bass carcasses (I finished up all the Basses on 13th street at my place in the City) were made in Brooklyn NY in 3 different shops and one in the City where we made some Neck and Body Billets and brought them to Brooklyn, not all by, with or thru Vinnie but the much of that NY basses were done with Vinnie in some part. All the rest (6,000+) have been made in my shop in PA.

No comment here from me on that authors opinions, just the facts!
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History is history and facts are facts. Not all of history is correct. If you have ever heard the phrase "if it is written, it is true", then you will understand why I prefer to correct errors, mis-truths and outright lies while I am still here on this earth to do so. Many people, products and litterateurs we have read and learned from has not had the same privilege in the lifetime of the named persons, products or claimed occurrences. I feel it is my obligation to set the record straight no matter how big or small.

Your replies and discussions are welcomed here.

[Steven Freitas]

A lot of stuff put up on forums and on the internet in general result
from hearsay, gossip, and second hand interpretations of what someone
else said. By the time the original statement gets to the last recipient, the
whole message changes.

Bottom line, I rather go to the source than rely on someone else's interpretation.

Ken, I understand. Posted up something on that forum the other day, then got
a message that the moderator had to "approve" the statement before it could post. Nothing in my statement met any of the "not approved" criteria, so why
the censorship?

I don't get it.