History of the American Bass

[Martin Sheridan]

The newest Howard Core catalog has the picture from another angle.

Klotz was such a big name and there were so many of them that they were also 'copied' in the 19th and 20th century; mass produced crappy violins containing Kotz labels and of course basses too. I saw one about thirty years ago that was clearly a commercial bass with a false Klotz label. It was a good bass however.
Ken, I have a feeling that you're right and that many of those basses are still in orchestras over there. Maybe our German friend can enlighten us on that.

[Eric Hochberg]

So, Ken, on the TB discussion about the now Upton Prescott in the Hawkes thread, looking at the scroll of that one, it has more turns than the few other Prescott scrolls I've seen pictured including yours, Nahrmann's, etc. It reminds me of the Batchelder scroll a bit. Do you think that is an original Prescott scroll, and if not, who might have made it, assuming it's original to the bass' time period?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

So, Ken, on the TB discussion about the now Upton Prescott in the Hawkes thread, looking at the scroll of that one, it has more turns than the few other Prescott scrolls I've seen pictured including yours, Nahrmann's, etc. It reminds me of the Batchelder scroll a bit. Do you think that is an original Prescott scroll, and if not, who might have made it, assuming it's original to the bass' time period?

I think it's Yankee but Darricott and Willard and many others made basses too. Where are they and all the other makers? Masquerading as Prescott's because it's easier to sell if it is.

In my opinion, I have seen more NON-Prescott's named Prescott than actual Prescotts themselves.

A customer came over once and showed me his Prescott. Oops.. Sorry, Not a Prescott that I can see. Shaw, Scotty, Reggie and now this as well as the other bass they have in pieces. How could Prescott have made all these various bass models, F-holes and Scrolls and the other maker's basses are still in the closet?

The early Cello models with sweeping FFs, one with those FFs and rounded cornered 4/4 (aka Busetto) and the other patterns with the short wide FFs that are connceted. Those are Prescotts. The long medium FFs, not his I think. Scrolls for sale? Why not! The French and the Germans did it!

If these were Strads selling in the Millions, it would all be sorted out. At these prices it's still a bass for the money and not a Pedigree purchase. A bass with no name is worth less than a similar grade bass with a name. That's just how it goes. Ca ching....

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by wayne holmes

As far as I know, I only have one older American made bass. The label has G. Kschier- PA-I found Kschier in one of my books-George and son made basses in the early 1900's using domestic wood- You have anything else on the Kschier basses?

What Book are you reading this from?

"Kschier, George & Sons; Vln maker, repairman and dealer. Firm was est. c.1855. Later was named Kschier bros. George worked there c.1907-1915. Broad Strad model. Brown oil Varnish. Domestic wood. Primarily repairs." (Wenberg)

I would say better than a 50/50 chance that they imported basses from Germany and re-labeled them like the Gemunder's did in NY from what I just read. Does not sound like Bass makers to me.Show me the bass, please!

[Ken McKay]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Fig.8/Pattern 'D'.this is figure 8, the 'Wright' Prescott;


As you can see in his Pic as compared to mine, the upper shoulders are on the narrow side. Mine were actually much bigger before the 'Cut' so I would believe mine to be an earlier example by Prescott. The date listed as 1800 is at least 25 years too early as that is NOT the work of an 11 year old boy (Prescott born 1789) as well as that Bass looking very well developed into his style as sizing especially with the smaller trimmed/evolved upper bouts. Also, my lower bouts are 28.5" wide, uncut as the bottom is original;

Is this photo of the Wright Prescott in this photo?

[Ken Smith]

Same exact bass. Sold at Auction to a UK dealer and ended up for sale at Robertson's. I don't know who bought it but the 'asking' price was a record high for a Prescott.

[Craig Regan]

Originally Posted by Brian Glassman

Hey Ken, this relates back to our discussion in posts 20-24 of this thread. I did see a light colored, large busetto w/ cello f's and a Prescott-like scroll, like this bass, at Barrie's once about 5 yrs ago. Perhaps they were the same model, that would make two.

BG

Brian, this could be the bass you were talking about:

http://www.basscellar.com/inventory.html

They have three Prescotts in their inventory, scroll through and you will find it.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Craig Regan

Brian, this could be the bass you were talking about:

http://www.basscellar.com/inventory.html

They have three Prescotts in their inventory, scroll through and you will find it.

Not at all and for many reasons. That is not a busetto, not a large model and not the sweeping 'Prescott' Cello FFs.

I think another one (Prescott) just came up for sale recently and is up at Arnold's. Right now there are at least 9 Prescott/Prescott school basses around for sale. Some in my opinion are not actual Prescotts but similar period Yankee made basses.

[Craig Regan]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Not at all and for many reasons. That is not a busetto, not a large model and not the sweeping 'Prescott' Cello FFs.

Its not the gamba bass that appears when the page comes up. The busetto with sweeping FFs is listed to the left in the inventory, for $45,500. Unique looking bass!

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Craig Regan

Its not the gamba bass that appears when the page comes up. The busetto with sweeping FFs is listed to the left in the inventory, for $45,500. Unique looking bass!

Well, I have never seen a Prescott with a date on it, only attributed. Also, I have a copy of the sales records thru 1828 from Prescott and there were very few Double Basses made before 1820. I am not 100% convinced about that bass being an actual Prescott. The Scroll is old Yankee but not Prescott and the FFs although similar are not as well, to me eye at least.

[Nando Raio]

Here is a few pictures of my 1880's George E.Bryant Bass....Yankee's Bass!
George's great great grand daughter sent me 2 pictures of him at his shop, I thought would be cool to post them,

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Nando Raio

Here is a few pictures of my 1880's George E.Bryant Bass....Yankee's Bass!
George's great great grand daughter sent me 2 pictures of him at his shop, I thought would be cool to post them,

The pictures of that bass reveal a turning point in Yankee Bass making. This bass is a few decades after the arrival or the old Gemunder Brothers. They came separately a few years apart and from different countries as George was working in France with Vuillaume and August came from Germany, his homeland. They later both moved to New York, again separately but the next generation of Gemunder's collaborated as well.

The reason I mention them as seeing a Cello-like shouldered Violin Cornered roundback shows a much higher art of bass making than seen in the Prescott Era. Also, many of the Boston school makers were European trained Violin makers. George Gemunder made 2 Vuillaume model basses shortly after arriving in New England. August made a pair of Gamba roundbacks (one of which I own) and at least one roundback smaller gamba shaped bass. In NY, the son's turned to importing basses from Germany and concentrated mainly on Violins.

This Bass reminds me more of Gemunder influence rather than Prescott with the exception of the tuner plates which again, look beautiful. Enjoy it..

[Nando Raio]

Thanks Ken for the info. I don't really know anything about August and Gemunder, were they Bryant's as well?
I talked to the great great granddaughter and she traced her family back to the 1700's in England, very interesting, George Bryant passed away in 1916.
This bass sounds more like an Italian bass than anything else, the back is really alive, you can feel it on every note, its really easy to play even with the string String length been over 42
Upper Bouts 20 inches
Middle Bouts 14 inches
Lower Bouts 25.9 inches

Large 3/4 or a small 7/8?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Nando Raio

Thanks Ken for the info. I don't really know anything about August and Gemunder, were they Bryant's as well?
I talked to the great great granddaughter and she traced her family back to the 1700's in England, very interesting, George Bryant passed away in 1916.
This bass sounds more like an Italian bass than anything else, the back is really alive, you can feel it on every note, its really easy to play even with the string String length been over 42
Upper Bouts 20 inches
Middle Bouts 14 inches
Lower Bouts 25.9 inches

Large 3/4 or a small 7/8?

Actually it is August Gemunder Snr. and George Gemunder Snr.. They were two makers that mover to Mass. about 1846 and 1848. George came from France where he was working and August from Germany. Both originally trained by their father in Germany. Your Bass reminds me of their work in some ways.

[Brian Glassman]

Beautiful bass! Thanks for the interesting post.

[Nando Raio]

Robin just posted some interesting newspaper articles on George E. Bryant, check out this link, scroll down to see it, part of AMERICAN HISTORY
http://thehofmannandbryantfamilyhistory.blogspot.com/

[Brian Glassman]

Nando, Much earlier in this thread Ken has said that the scroll on my Prescott Gamba may not be original because it is not typical of a Prescott scroll. However it does appear to be very old and although the brass cheek plates are wider than on most Prescotts it does have the typical Prescott-like Bee Sting shape at the top which are on your Bryant as well.
In fact it looks much like the brass cheek plates on your Bryant! Tuners looks similar as well.

Perhaps it's a Bryant scroll? What do you think Ken?

The back of the two scrolls are not as similar, however. I'll have to post a pic of the back of the scroll to compare.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Brian Glassman

Nando, Much earlier in this thread Ken has said that the scroll on my Prescott Gamba may not be original because it is not typical of a Prescott scroll. However it does appear to be very old and although the brass cheek plates are wider than on most Prescotts it does have the typical Prescott-like Bee Sting shape at the top which are on your Bryant as well.
In fact it looks much like the brass cheek plates on your Bryant! Tuners looks similar as well.

Perhaps it's a Bryant scroll? What do you think Ken?

The back of the two scrolls are not as similar, however. I'll have to post a pic of the back of the scroll to compare.

I have no idea who made that Scroll. I just don't think it's a Prescott Scroll. Old Yankee basses from Prescott's time were 3-string. Many Basses get their heads chopped off. Back then I am sure the Luthiers preferred replacing the entire neck/scroll over doing a neck graft and saving the original.

Nice basses though, both of them.

[Ken Smith]

I don't know why this Bass has never been pictured here. I must have over looked it somehow. Here are a few temporary pics of the J.B. Allen.

Someday before long, as time allows, I will get a full set of pics of this bass up on my DB web page.

The workmanship, condition and masterful *restoration (*by Robert McIntosh, 1999) of this Yankee Bass has to be one of the finest specimens ever seen in the combined categories. The sound of this beauty matches its other attributes as well.

[Mike Karn]

Ken - Seeing that picture of Arnold's JB Allen made me think of Phil Palombi's Allen. Here are a couple of pictures i found, hopefully they're not too small



Ok, for some reason the picture of the labels doesn't enlarge, but this page has several larger pictures, just scroll down