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  #1  
Old 05-31-2007, 07:43 PM
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Anselm Hauke Anselm Hauke is offline
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Default William Booth (1780-1853)

ken,
do you know anything about William Booth (1780-1853)?
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  #2  
Old 06-01-2007, 11:06 AM
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Cool Booth..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anselm Hauke View Post
ken,
do you know anything about William Booth (1780-1853)?
Is this Bass labeled and dated? After referencing several books I own I find that there are several Booth's all in the 19th century beginning William I born the earliest (1779-1780?) but worked from about 1809/'10-1856/'58 at Leeds and his son William II who died in 1856 but worked for a time for another dealer from 1834-1838 and then returned to Leeds. There are also listings for a Charles, Joseph and W. Booth with no relations listed but all in the 19th century as well but mostly in the second half.

Gallery Strings has a Booth Bass on their 'site but is an older looking J.Hill style Bass in Gamba form. Your Bass with the Violin form, longer upper Bout, outside Rib linings and its more Italian looking form maybe be from a later date or even Wlm.II that the Gallery Bass which to me looks much older and completely different as well.

This is a beautiful Bass you've posted. Thank's for listing it here for all to see. Is this your personal Bass? Great find either way...
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  #3  
Old 06-02-2007, 07:00 AM
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Anselm Hauke Anselm Hauke is offline
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Ken,
thank you for your answer.

My quick google-search only showed me "William Booth, founder of the salvation-army"...

The only info i got about the bass is what i have written here, and the pic.
it´s not mine. but it´s for sale.

the hint to gallerystrings was very helpful, thank you.their "past customers" page is very enlightening sometimes.
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  #4  
Old 06-02-2007, 09:55 PM
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Default booth

I have also only heard of Booth via Gallery Strings. Interestingly I have been told by English experts that it is not an English attribute to have outside linings of that kind and yet my bass (attributed to Furber) has similar look from the side although other differences obviously. Is this Booth positively identified by someone or by a label?
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  #5  
Old 06-02-2007, 11:03 PM
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Lightbulb not an English attribute??

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidseidel View Post
I have also only heard of Booth via Gallery Strings. Interestingly I have been told by English experts that it is not an English attribute to have outside linings of that kind and yet my bass (attributed to Furber) has similar look from the side although other differences obviously. Is this Booth positively identified by someone or by a label?
Well, let me butt in here on that subject. From what I have seen there are Basses from England as far back as the late 18th century with outer linings/moldings. These makers included Dodd, Lott, Fendt and even somewhat with the squared corners on some Forster Basses which also show up on Dodd, Lott and even your attr. Furber Bass.

I have seen a few Italian Basses with outer moldings and some older German Basses as well. The outer moldings however are on the good majority of the German and Germanic Czech Basses made over the last 100+ years. German Basses made before 1850 have them on less occasion but still show up.

I don't know if you can say it IS an English attribute to have outside linings but many makers built Basses with these moldings during their 'golden' Bass building period from the late 18th century and well into 19th century.

If the Bass is old and the outer linings are original, then do not rule out the Bass being English if it looks English. Some Basses have had outer linings put on at a later date in their life. I have seen both an old German and an old Italian Bass with outer linings that to my eye were not original to the Bass.

In closing for now, outer linings IS one of the Attributes found on 'some' older English Basses but not all of them and not exclusively used by any one maker than I know of.

Remember this please, the English were mainly the greatest copyists of their time in the Bass world as well as the other Strings. While the French were copyists as well, the Basses they made were usually typical French of that period while the English made it a point to copy the best Italian and even some German traits on the Basses. Stainer was their big influence before they switched to the Cremonas. Panormo did help set the pace but not all followed his lead. Many English makers stuck with the Germanic style and even a little French flavor popped up now and then.

I wonder, how many English Basses today are still running around with Italian names?
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  #6  
Old 06-03-2007, 07:52 AM
Arnold Schnitzer Arnold Schnitzer is offline
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Ken, weren't many of the workmen in the English shops German?
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  #7  
Old 06-03-2007, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidseidel View Post
Is this Booth positively identified by someone or by a label?
sorry david,
as i wrote in post#3 i´ve got no further information.
i could ask the seller for label/stamp/expertise, if you would like.
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  #8  
Old 06-03-2007, 10:55 AM
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Cool Germans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer View Post
Ken, weren't many of the workmen in the English shops German?
Well other than maybe Fendt and Lott I can't think of any other German names and they came from the Tirol I believe. Fendt trained in Paris actually so was more of a French/English maker working for Dodd. Lott was trained by Fendt in the Dodd shop so neither of them actually ever made instruments in Germany.

Actually, did you know that the English School of making came from the Tirol as well? His name was Jacob Rayman and came to London around 1620 and worked till about 1650. He is the first Violin maker or note in the London school.

There were other from Germany and The Tirol I guess between him and Fendt time wise but will have to look them up to see where they actually came from.

John Lott I is not from Germany, his father was! While reading in the book 'The British Violin' (1998) I have found new information that John Lott, a Chair maker (maybe?) from Gottingen, Germany married Ann Waring at St. Georges (London) in 1775. This is actually the Father of J.F.Lott I (Violin/Bass maker) who was born on April 26, 1776 and christened on June 16th in London. J.F. Lott I is actually of British birth and not from Germany as previously believed! The father was born about 1755 and maybe in Germany as the records are not totally clear. One thing that is clear, there are actually 3 generations of John Lotts, not two! Only two of them were makers though.

Last edited by Ken Smith; 07-10-2007 at 08:30 PM. Reason: correction!
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  #9  
Old 06-08-2007, 04:28 AM
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Anselm Hauke Anselm Hauke is offline
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Default another booth by accident

i´ve never seen or heard of w.booth until i´ve seen the one mentioned in my first post last week.

but now, one week later i met somebody who once owned another one.
he showed me pics, and it looked very much like the one at gallerystrings.
(he said it was not the same one)
gamba-model with a scroll very different to the one in post#1
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  #10  
Old 06-08-2007, 08:32 AM
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Thumbs up The British Basses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anselm Hauke View Post
i´ve never seen or heard of w.booth until i´ve seen the one mentioned in my first post last week.

but now, one week later i met somebody who once owned another one.
he showed me pics, and it looked very much like the one at gallerystrings.
(he said it was not the same one)
gamba-model with a scroll very different to the one in post#1
Just when you think you know all the British makes, a Bass pops up from a maker previously unknown for Basses.

The Famous Bow maker Samuel Allen from the Hill dynasty made only one known Bass currently owned by a prominent Jazz player. One day a man shows up here to try Basses and pulls out a 3/4 Tirol looking Bass with English wood and Varnish bearing a handwritten English label. When I bought my last English Bass believed to be a Fendt, we found Stamps from John Hart inside whom before now was not known to have made any Basses on his own as his son-in-law William Valentine is credited with making his Basses some decades after this one was made.

England was home to some of the best makers producing Basses in all of Europe between about 1775-1875 and in that 100 years, no other country that I know of made as many great Orchestral Double Basses as witnessed today in the worlds Orchestras.

My 'Mystery Bass' which is still in restoration was guessed at first to be Bohemian/Germanic or maybe Italian until it was opened up and examined better. Then, when pictures were sent to 5 of London's tops Shops/Dealers they all confirmed that it was of English origin as did Biase and myself believe. The wood, varnish and most importantly the scars and remnants of the original interior all pointed to 17th-18th century English Gamba making convincing us that our suspect was English indeed.

Although Northern England is at the top of most Londoners lists, we have yet to see a Bass this fine in design and make from anywhere but Olde London where it all started by a Tirolean named Jacob Rayman in the early 17th century with the first known English Violin followed shortly after by Thomas Urquhart, Barak Norman and John Hare. The only Basses that might be seen from this period of London are that of the Viol/Gamba type and not true Double Basses. As the British copied Stainer in the beginning by often exaggerating the high arching it is not far fetched to believe they made early Double Basses exaggerated in size from the German and Italian examples as seen by visiting Musicians from the Continent.

Maybe tomorrow an English Bass will pop up by yet another maker unknown until now.
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  #11  
Old 07-02-2007, 06:03 PM
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Cool Ok, found another..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer View Post
Ken, weren't many of the workmen in the English shops German?
In reading today I find a once forgotten name of 'Lentz' also from the Tirol. It seems as if the elder Lentz (Johann Nicholaus) worked about 1800-1813 around London. He may have been a pupil or associate of Bernhardt Fendt Sr. Work is similar to Dodd and J.F.Lott in regards to the Varnish. One son Jacob Lentz was known for making a large amount of Basses that were admired. Another son was named John Frederick (after Lott?). The work of this Family is mainly unlabeled and not often recognized.

It seems that every worker I have found of Germanic origin was actually from the Tyrol which is NOT actually Germany at that time. Look at the name "Johann Nicholaus"! Clearly an Italian twist there. The Tirol is more like the stepping stones between Italy and Germany with Austria being the 'doormat'!

I wonder, could my Mystery English Bass be made by one of the Lentz family?

Even in todays Violin Books we see Stainer (Steiner) referred to as a German maker when actually he was from the Austrian Tirol (Innsbruck). I believe Stainer married into the Amati family as well to the daughter of Antonius, son of Andrea.
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  #12  
Old 10-08-2007, 10:57 PM
Brandon Mason Brandon Mason is offline
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That bass looks incredibly similiar to one of Ed Barker's basses.
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