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  #21  
Old 06-01-2010, 05:38 AM
Anton Hasias Anton Hasias is offline
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Hi everybody,

Runing the bass flat, to me it's like a hamburger without onions, mustard and ketchup.
On Smith basses we find one of the best bass 3 band eq ever and all the knobs are there to be tweaked in order to reach the best palette of sounds needed for the gigs or studio songs.
On amps like Ampeg or others, only the preamp section worth hundreds of $$ and I think it's a waiste of money to run these amps flat. (btw, if anybody knows how can we run an Ampeg SVT tube amp flat, please share, because I don't think it's possible - as only by the fact that you are playing a tube amp, the sound will be well coloured by the tubes)

So the eq board on Smith basses and amps is there to be utilised, and only our creativity must be the border line.
If not, a DI is largely enough...
It's just like some nice clothes; each time we wear something different we look a little different and generaly we wear for any occasion different closes (try to enter in your local Opera House dressed with your beloved rainbow coloured jogging sweat shirt...or better, nacked), but this will not change our personality.

Best regards

Last edited by Anton Hasias; 06-01-2010 at 06:08 AM.
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  #22  
Old 06-01-2010, 05:33 PM
Allan Padmore Allan Padmore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Hasias View Post
Hi everybody,

Runing the bass flat, to me it's like a hamburger without onions, mustard and ketchup.
On Smith basses we find one of the best bass 3 band eq ever and all the knobs are there to be tweaked in order to reach the best palette of sounds needed for the gigs or studio songs.
On amps like Ampeg or others, only the preamp section worth hundreds of $$ and I think it's a waiste of money to run these amps flat. (btw, if anybody knows how can we run an Ampeg SVT tube amp flat, please share, because I don't think it's possible - as only by the fact that you are playing a tube amp, the sound will be well coloured by the tubes)

So the eq board on Smith basses and amps is there to be utilised, and only our creativity must be the border line.
If not, a DI is largely enough...
It's just like some nice clothes; each time we wear something different we look a little different and generaly we wear for any occasion different closes (try to enter in your local Opera House dressed with your beloved rainbow coloured jogging sweat shirt...or better, nacked), but this will not change our personality.

Best regards
Well said! I could never understand flat settings only regardless of room and speaker and all other components. Such a waste of high end electronics. If all a player needed was flat then cheaper would be better cost wise.
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  #23  
Old 06-01-2010, 06:32 PM
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Christopher Rhodes Christopher Rhodes is offline
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Default My Favorite Tone Setting...

My favorite setting is ... well... a new set of Ken Smith Burner strings. The nickel type.

All the EQ settings cannot replace a fresh set of strings.

Secondly. A nice sounding cabinet seems to make the tone just pop out in the mix.

I know this is slightly off topic - but since the subject is "tone";
mentioning the basic ingredients wouldn't be too far off topic.

Bass (BMT or BSR) + New Strings (Burners) + Nice cabinet( a good one) = That sparkling Ken Smith Tone.
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  #24  
Old 06-01-2010, 08:14 PM
Jose Bichoff Jose Bichoff is offline
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Thumbs up Flat settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan Padmore View Post
Well said! I could never understand flat settings only regardless of room and speaker and all other components. Such a waste of high end electronics. If all a player needed was flat then cheaper would be better cost wise.
Well, my point is that I do change EQs, but when I'm not in the studio I usually do that in my amp, not in the bass, so I can shape the sound to the room where I am and send the tone that I like from my bass to FOH.
Flat setting is just another one among infinite possibilities Ken's EQ provides. And I think it works just fine.

Best Regards
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  #25  
Old 06-01-2010, 08:33 PM
Roosevelt Allen Roosevelt Allen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Rhodes View Post
My favorite setting is ... well... a new set of Ken Smith Burner strings. The nickel type.

All the EQ settings cannot replace a fresh set of strings.

Secondly. A nice sounding cabinet seems to make the tone just pop out in the mix.

I know this is slightly off topic - but since the subject is "tone";
mentioning the basic ingredients wouldn't be too far off topic.

Bass (BMT or BSR) + New Strings (Burners) + Nice cabinet( a good one) = That sparkling Ken Smith Tone.
1000+. With this combination I can't seem to get a bad sound out of my BT5G no matter how the EQ settings on the bass are adjusted. In addition I tend to also tweak my tone with hand position, attack, etc.; so, I usually leave the bass flat until the strings start to die.
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  #26  
Old 06-01-2010, 09:56 PM
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Christopher Rhodes Christopher Rhodes is offline
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Default Tone is in your touch & technique

EQ settings, running flat, or however you desire still cannot replace a players abilities with touch and technique.
Your pluck, thump, slap, pop, attack, release, and control of the strings are ... well...
more important than EQ settings.

This ultimately is the determining factor of "your" tone.

Check out this youtube example: from the 7 minute mark...
clearly, a demonstration of total control of the tone, with touch & technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0e0Y...eature=related
( I believe this is Ken Smith BT6 - red stain color; rarely seen like this?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z51o7...eature=related
(Jerry Brooks Solo with red Smith BT6)

Oh yes...
Tone is such a subjective topic... "ear" of the beholder.
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  #27  
Old 06-05-2010, 08:42 AM
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Christopher Rhodes Christopher Rhodes is offline
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Default No More Comments?

I hope I did not kill this thread...

I played my 7-string bass last night, with a LMKII head... it was nice. I might get another gig out of it.
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  #28  
Old 06-05-2010, 10:06 AM
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Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
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Wink Kill what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Rhodes View Post
I hope I did not kill this thread...

I played my 7-string bass last night, with a LMKII head... it was nice. I might get another gig out of it.
I have noticed tons of youtube clips with Smith basses. Just put 'ken smith' in the youtube search, pull up a chair and listen all day to more clips that I can count.

For me, (if playing electric bass) I get the sound I need with the bass and amp at hand. The room and stage have a lot to do with it. I would say it's equally or even more important to have the sound in your head you are shooting for than to have pre-fixed settings planned.

I usually use both pickups balanced firts of all. Usually medium Tapercore strings and fairly fresh regardless of the venue. Form there it depends on the amp and how the amp sounds in the room. I like to set-up the amp for the room to get the basic sound I am looking for with the bass controls still set flat. I would prefer to make my tweaks or adjustments from the bass rather then reaching back to the amp. I usually have the volume out full on the bass but holding that back incase you need a quick on-board boost isn't a bad idea.

For tight funk sound setting with any amount of slapping to do (I haven't slapped much in years) I would raise equally the the bass and treble and cut the mids. This gives the bass a 'notched' setting. For jazz or pop or straight non-pop/slap R&B I do what ever works at the time. Playing with a small group verses a large group with horns will require different settings to cut through.

I would say the best setting is what pleases your ear and what people out in the house or hall tell you sounds best out there as well.

The exact bass you have in model or woods (woods matter a lot for tone settings) and settings between 4, 5, 6, and 7 string will vary even if each bass on the same gig in the same hands with the same strings is the exact same model and woods because, the mass in the neck woods matter. An open G sounds different on a 4, 5, 6 and 7 because of how much wood is under it.

So, use your head (mind really) and ears to know what you want to sound like and set you amp first. Then do the fine tuning with the Bass preamp.

Sometimes after you get it just right, someone in the band tells you, too much this or not enough that or.. the house engineer say.. put it all flat, I'll mix it in the booth... lol

Keep an open mind and make good music.
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  #29  
Old 06-08-2010, 07:49 PM
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Amit Shtriker Amit Shtriker is offline
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Quote:
On amps like Ampeg or others, only the preamp section worth hundreds of $$ and I think it's a waiste of money to run these amps flat. (btw, if anybody knows how can we run an Ampeg SVT tube amp flat, please share, because I don't think it's possible - as only by the fact that you are playing a tube amp, the sound will be well coloured by the tubes)
That was exactly my point... Every amp is engineered to have a certain sound (a preset EQ if you will). What I have found is that most of the amps that need messing around with the sound to get the sound you want, will almost always sound less natural (I know a lot of bass players ARE after this low& high boosted with no mids) than amps that sound good when just turning up the volume...

And as both a musician and engineer, one thing I have learned the hard way - using a piece of gear (EQ/compressor etc.) just because you have one available or because it worth hundreds/thousands of $$ is not such a musical decision.

As Christopher Rhodes said (I think this is what he ultimately meant) - the sound is the bass, the strings, and your fingers!! Then the FOH or mix engineer can tweak it further to fit better in the mix..

I used to record and perform with the bass EQ'ed with the onboard EQ as "my tone", I have found it harder to control in the mix, as did the FOH engineers that I worked with. Since I started playing with flat settings on onboard EQ, my sound is more manageable, live and in studio.

One more thing - as I said in my first post - I do use the onboard EQ - just not as MY TONE but in extreme cases, when I need it (extreme sub-bass playing or compensating for thin sounding pickups for instance).
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  #30  
Old 06-09-2010, 05:04 AM
Anton Hasias Anton Hasias is offline
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I still try to imagine the bass sound of Jaco RIP, Chris Squire, Geddy Lee or Mick Karn with flat settings...and telling to the sound engineer: "Listen man please find the bass sound that suits my playing, I know you can do it, I trust you..."
What is also true is that too many great bass players do the DI and because of this their sound is kind of generic so, at least for me it's not possible to recognize who is playing the bass as the sound signature is absent.

I think that this is the difference between "safe and creative" soundwise speaking.

Best regards
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  #31  
Old 06-10-2010, 07:12 PM
Jose Bichoff Jose Bichoff is offline
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Default humm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Hasias View Post
I still try to imagine the bass sound of Jaco RIP, Chris Squire, Geddy Lee or Mick Karn with flat settings...and telling to the sound engineer: "Listen man please find the bass sound that suits my playing, I know you can do it, I trust you..."
What is also true is that too many great bass players do the DI and because of this their sound is kind of generic so, at least for me it's not possible to recognize who is playing the bass as the sound signature is absent.

I think that this is the difference between "safe and creative" soundwise speaking.

Best regards
Anton,

I really respect your opinion but I don't agree with you.
Musicians such as those you mentioned are legends and I don't think they became what they are only turning one or two knobs.

I agree with Ken when he says the tone should be in our mind first. Sound personality is a thing that takes years and a lot of work to acquire.
Most part of the time when someone is playing, (s)he needs to instinctively and quickly decide to use the point of the finger, play notes 'staccato', play with all forefinger over the string to get a round tone, play close to the bridge, to the neck, slap, tapping, thumb plucking, pick, with vibrato or not, with slide or not... Decisions like that and articulation have much more to do with sound personality than anything related to EQs. This is my opinion.

Certainly I will never ask a sound engineer to find the right sound for me (that's my homework ), but it's just impossible to be in the stage and among the audience at the same time... and yet discuss with the sound engineer how my bass should sound. In live performances he WILL make this decision! And it's OK!

I don't know if I was clear enough in my last two posts but I only use flat tone when playing live and just because it's the sound I like to hear from my bass.
In the studio I have more time and confidence to discuss with the producer which kind of bass I will use and then what setting fits best for the song.

Well, at least in one thing I think we both agree: Ken's EQ is the best over there and we can count on it to go where we need, flat or not...

I know all of this is very subjective matter, sorry if I am hitting to much the same key...

Keep making great music. Peace.

Best Regards.
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  #32  
Old 06-11-2010, 07:21 PM
Allan Padmore Allan Padmore is offline
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Jose tudo bem, amigo.
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  #33  
Old 06-12-2010, 04:42 PM
Anton Hasias Anton Hasias is offline
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Hi Jose,

One of the things that I like in this forum is that each of us can show openly his or her opinion (and respect this) even if some of us (50%) see it opposite.
As you said it, the final goal who keeps us connected: Playing and making great music.

Best regards
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