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Old 08-16-2010, 11:11 AM
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Default Rebuilt bass by Jed Kriegel

I feel lucky to be able to say that after much looking, trying, and playing, this is my new/used bass. Here's the short version.

It’s a 12 year old unlabeled Hungarian flatback, brought into the U.S.A. about 12 years ago by an import company called E.M.M.C. It was bought and played for about 10 years by Paul Nowinski. Brazilian luthier Paulo Gomes did some work on the bass, including installation of the hatpeg tuners and gluing linen strips on the inside of the ribs, to reduce cracking.

Local luthiery wizard Jed Kriegel got the bass about 1 ½ years ago, with an eye to rebuilding it, from the ground up. Jed essentially used the existing bass as lumber and a basic shape, and built a new bass within the outlines.

He took it all apart, then regraduated both top and bottom plates. He thinned down all rib blocking, as well as top and bottom blocks. After removing the “ladder back” bracing, he replaced it with a SINGLE diagonal back brace, sort of like half of an X brace (
note the single diagonal back brace, visible through the f hole photo). He reset the neck with 1 1/4" overstand, then made a raised saddle to keep string angles on the bridge correct. Carbon fiber neck insert, behind a new fingerboard.

Upper bouts are 20 ¾” wide. Ribs are 8 1/4" at the bottom, 7 1/4" at the bend, 5 3/8" at the neck heel. Body length (to bottom of heel) is 44". Bottom bout is 26" wide. String length is 41 5/8".

High-tech tailwire made from a super high-strength rope (“Vectran”) that Jed wove the ends of together with some sick nautical splicing (in addition to luthiery, he has a boat-building background). He made a new bridge, fitted with a Full Circle pickup. For me, he added a ½” diameter New Harmony delrin/carbon fiber endpin unit, made by David Bice (I will change the pin itself to steel, to keep the low-end "bloom" and "punch"; these disappear on this bass with the carbon fiber pin). Jed also changed the color from a reddish finish, to a dark, reddish-brown color. Ebony tailpiece.

What I love about it is the absolute quickness of the E string response, arco. Absolutely no hesitation. A quick, room-filling E string sound. Punchy, blooming pizz. Arco, both the E and A strings are unusually full-sounding.

The bass is loud and full, both arco and pizz, with a clear sound throughout the range. The wide shoulders (again, not my first choice) give the bottom end some real meat.

It’s sick. Sort of like one of those shows where they turn a Ford Pinto into a Nascar racer. Reminds me of the State Troopers I see driving around in insanely hopped-up, unmarked Taurus’.

It is sort of like that, too. I think of the bass as my "Ugly Duckling," the finish is funky, the external fit and finish (from the original maker) are a bit crude, here and there, but the engineering and execution of all of Jed’s work is dreamlike in its accuracy, thoughtfulness, elegance, and pure efficacy.

The E string, under the bow, has a fullness that reminds me of Ken Smith's Martini. When you hit the E there is nothing but a full, rich sound. The bass is very quick and easy to play.


I want to express my sincere thanks to Ken Smith, Wil DeSola, and Arnold Schnitzer, for their invaluable expertise, time, perspective, generosity, and help during the selection process. It was a great pleasure and honor to visit both Ken Smith Basses and AES Fine Instruments, meet with these men, play instruments, and learn from their vast experience.

I also need to give further credit where it is due. I feel tremendous gratitude to Boston area bass luthiers Michael Hartery, Kurt Ratering, and John Styklunas who all checked the bass out before I bought it and shared their expert opinions.

Kurt Ratering, at Johnson String Instruments' "The Bass Shop" was incredibly thorough; he called in two North Benet Street violin-making grads as well as a professional bassist they have on staff, and the four of them crawled over the bass, stem to stern.

Michael Hartery, a wonderful professional bassist as well as accomplished luthier, gave the bass a solid approval after playing it several times.

John Styklunas, another talented bassist and luthier, after coming to my house to check out the bass, made some helpful suggestions and comments, as well as giving it his approval.

All in all, I got a lot of help from a lot of great people. I feel fortunate to have been the recipient of such knowledge and generosity.
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Last edited by Eric Swanson; 08-22-2010 at 08:06 AM. Reason: Thought that the title was more apt and would be more interesting
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:22 AM
Sam Sherry Sam Sherry is offline
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Eric, congratulations -- play it long and well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Swanson View Post
The E string, under the bow, has a fullness that reminds me of Ken Smith's Martini.
I'm sorry -- I can't hold back -- it's too good to pass up: "Ken Smith's Martini doesn't stay full for long!"
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:32 AM
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I'm sorry -- I can't hold back -- it's too good to pass up: "Ken Smith's Martini doesn't stay full for long!"
But it's not me sipping on it. I don't drink!..
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:51 AM
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Ken, do you know anything about this import company, E.M.M.C.? I struck out on the Internet.

I am curious about this bass' original maker in Hungary, but know nothing else. Have you seen instruments similar in size and proportion, that you know more about? I really wonder who made the bass, in the first place.

The 20 3/4" wide upper bout is a bit unusual; I thought that you may have run across another one, in your travels...
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Old 08-16-2010, 12:37 PM
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Lightbulb Emmc?

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Originally Posted by Eric Swanson View Post
Ken, do you know anything about this import company, E.M.M.C.? I struck out on the Internet.

I am curious about this bass' original maker in Hungary, but know nothing else. Have you seen instruments similar in size and proportion, that you know more about? I really wonder who made the bass, in the first place.

The 20 3/4" wide upper bout is a bit unusual; I thought that you may have run across another one, in your travels...
I think Barrie Kolstein does or did business with them on a model he made and distributed thru them. Call Barrie and ask him. Also, why not ask Paul Nowinski? After all, it's one of several Romanian/Hungarian basses he's bought, modified and sold. Paul talked to me about buying some of these 'modified' Gypsy basses awhile ago. I passed on it. It seems from the work that Jeff did to correct everything that what was done in Brazil may have been a waste. Un-doing and re-doing is always more work than doing it right the first time.

I have had a few Hungarian basses come thru here as well and all of them needed some kind of tidying up in one way or another. All of them sounded good when I first got them and all of them sounded even better after the work was done. They seem to have some good wood over there as far as wood for making tone. It's just that the workmanship on the basses they send over is not always the best as far as meeting our standards here.

Glad to hear you found a match with your new bass. Enjoy it..
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Old 08-16-2010, 12:51 PM
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Lightbulb bouts..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Swanson View Post
The 20 3/4" wide upper bout is a bit unusual; I thought that you may have run across another one, in your travels...
I think your measurements are that of an English Maggini type bass. Very similar to my Hart-Maggini in many areas measured.

Hungarian;---------------------------------------Hart;
Upper bouts are 20 ¾” wide.......................20 3/4"
Ribs are 8 1/4" at the bottom.....................7 7/8"
7 1/4" at the bend...................................tapering
5 3/8" at the neck heel.............................5 1/4"
Body length (to bottom of heel) is 44".........44 3/8" (Top to the tips)
Bottom bout is 26" wide............................26 1/8"
String length is 41 5/8".............................
41 3/4"


The Hungarian and Romanians like most all others copied the Italians. In this case, the English made several Maggini/d'Salo copies in the latter 18th and early-mid 19th centuries. My Hart is most likely a forgery of a Maggini or antiqued to look old for marketing when it was new. Your bass is a copy of the copies or something Italian that came from Maggini as well.
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Old 08-16-2010, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
...It seems from the work that Jeff did to correct everything that what was done in Brazil may have been a waste. Un-doing and re-doing is always more work than doing it right the first time.
Thanks for the info, Ken. I will contact Paul Nowinski and ask him what he knows.

Also great info on the comparison to the Hart/Maggini. Thanks for posting those specs.

Jed took the bass to another level, regardless of who did what to it, before.

It does sound as if there was some tedious reworking involved. He did regraduate the plates and fit a new bass bar. Also, his back brace engineering and execution seem to really work well. The thing can move some air...

The raised saddle/neck reset, and carbon fiber neck inlay are all helping, too.
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Old 08-16-2010, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Swanson View Post
Thanks for the info, Ken. I will contact Paul Nowinski and ask him what he knows.

Also great info on the comparison to the Hart/Maggini. Thanks for posting those specs.

Jed took the bass to another level, regardless of who did what to it, before.

It does sound as if there was some tedious reworking involved. He did re-graduate the plates and fit a new bass bar. Also, his back brace engineering and execution seem to really work well. The thing can move some air...

The raised saddle/neck reset, and carbon fiber neck inlay are all helping, too.
Sounds like the bass was free and you just paid for part of the work done. Great deal. I am sure though that my A.Gemunder Snr. Bass was put aside for this bass to be done as we have agreed he can finish it when he finishes it. Jed does great work. The old original Gemunder in his words is the hardest job he's ever done in his life to date. Patience is appreciated.
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Old 08-17-2010, 09:11 AM
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It seems as if the largest difference between the sizing and proportions of the two basses is the depth of the ribs as they move up the bass and the bend location. The Hart's ribs seem to be closer to a consistent width, until they hit the "bend," my bass seems to taper more aggressively, starting at the bottom.

The Hart's bend looks higher up on the bass; just by eye, it would seem to have greater internal volume than my bass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
I think your measurements are that of an English Maggini type bass. Very similar to my Hart-Maggini in many areas measured.

Hungarian;---------------------------------------Hart;
Upper bouts are 20 ¾” wide.......................20 3/4"
Ribs are 8 1/4" at the bottom.....................7 7/8"
7 1/4" at the bend...................................tapering
5 3/8" at the neck heel.............................5 1/4"
Body length (to bottom of heel) is 44".........44 3/8" (Top to the tips)
Bottom bout is 26" wide............................26 1/8"
String length is 41 5/8".............................
41 3/4"


The Hungarian and Romanians like most all others copied the Italians. In this case, the English made several Maggini/d'Salo copies in the latter 18th and early-mid 19th centuries. My Hart is most likely a forgery of a Maggini or antiqued to look old for marketing when it was new. Your bass is a copy of the copies or something Italian that came from Maggini as well.
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Swanson View Post
It seems as if the largest difference between the sizing and proportions of the two basses is the depth of the ribs as they move up the bass and the bend location. The Hart's ribs seem to be closer to a consistent width, until they hit the "bend," my bass seems to taper more aggressively, starting at the bottom.

The Hart's bend looks higher up on the bass; just by eye, it would seem to have greater internal volume than my bass.
The Dragonetti d'Salo is like that as well, bent high up. Most basses are bent further down with a shallower angle. There is nothing shy about this bend. Dragonetti being in London at this period with his bass I am sure was an influence. The few Maggini and d'Salo basses I have seen look similar with the bend quite high. It keeps the upper bout as full as possible and then just below the block, it angles in to the neck. I like it.
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Old 08-19-2010, 08:40 AM
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Default Your rebuilt basses?

I know a tiny bit about some of the restorations that Ken has sponsored and made happen, and the many basses he has brought back to life. I certainly don't know all of the stories; I know he has given a lot of work to several luthiers and made a lot of basses sing better than ever before.

Ken currently has an expose thread going about the cheesy, illegal, and unscrupulous things that a few luthiers have done. Its good information to have out there, to be sure.

Does anybody have positive, successful, major rebuild stories about their basses to share? With either a modest bass (like mine) or some of the less modest instruments that many of you have?
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Old 08-19-2010, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Swanson View Post
I know a tiny bit about some of the restorations that Ken has sponsored and made happen, and the many basses he has brought back to life. I certainly don't know all of the stories; I know he has given a lot of work to several luthiers and made a lot of basses sing better than ever before.

Ken currently has an expose thread going about the cheesy, illegal, and unscrupulous things that a few luthiers have done. Its good information to have out there, to be sure.

Does anybody have positive, successful, major rebuild stories about their basses to share? With either a modest bass (like mine) or some of the less modest instruments that many of you have?
I think this would be a good topic for a new Thread in the Luthier section.

Not all work is bad. Most is usually good. It's the bad that people often don't notice until it's too late. A Thread on the positive with more common basses would be a welcome addition for sure.
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Old 08-26-2010, 01:30 PM
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Default End pin tweaking

Interesting couple weeks of end pin experimentation.

I needed a large diameter endpin because of my height and pin extension, and I like the positive locking of the New Harmony endpin mechanism, but the carbon fiber pin killed the punch and bloom in the low end.

In the past week, I experimented with .5 inch steel rod and pipe, then the steel pipe filled with various filler rods (steel, brass, etc., wrapped with tape in three places, so that they didn't rattle), to experiment with different masses.

Lots of A/B/C'ing...

My strongest preference, right now, is the solid .5 inch steel rod. The room-filling bottom is back. On the other hand, every option has its characteristic sound and feel. I find myself using different pins for different playing situations. Was playing duets with sax the other night and the hollow tube worked best. The sax player and I were both messing around between sets; him with his reeds, me with my endpin...

Interesting process and experiment. It confirms a post I read by Arnold Schnitzer, saying he had experienced the same thing when he removed the steel pin on another bass. When he replaced the steel, the sound returned.

It is also interesting to note that in the Chuck Traeger book, he is adamant about always using a wood or carbon fiber pin. I found the opposite to be true, in this case. The light pins caused the sound to dissipate and have no "center" or punch; the steel makes my bass louder, punchier, and fuller.
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Old 08-26-2010, 09:47 PM
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Interesting stuff.
When I bought my bass a year ago, it had a heavy steel end pin and I had it switched out for a carbon fiber. I also had them change the strings and a different tailpiece so I dunno what effect the lighter end pin made. Mainly, I wanted to lighten the load.
The bass sounds great with a big, resonant tone but it does lack that really centered powerful low end. That is, until I remove the rubber tip and stick the point in the floor. It's like the E string grows some cajones. I suppose I could try a 14mm steel rod but that would add a bit of weight.
Prolly should just learn that new tune for tomorrow's gig.
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:15 AM
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Continuing the endpin experimentation. Probably going to try stainlesss steel rod and brass rod first, maybe titanium rod, and probably some home-brewed, multi-layer brass tube + carbon fiber or stainless or titanium core.

I have clearly lost my mind, but then, who would notice? I am truly amazed at how differently the bass responds and sounds with various materials. I think that it is a further testament to the work Jed did that the bass itself is so transparent and responsive that the endpin makes such a difference.

Interesting website with (somewhat cryptic graphics) but interesting endpin notes and options (mostly for cello, but some bass). I have emailed some with the owner Mike Oishi, who has been great in his endpin-related thoughtfulness. He gave me info on a place that would custom make me a .5" pin, of any metal combination I wanted, but he encouraged me to experiment on my own, as a less costly option. Far down, on the endpin descriptions, he mentions Gary Karr currently using a brass and carbon fiber combo rod on his Ham bass:

http://frenchcellobow.com/products/endpin.html

(bass endpins are at the bottom of the page)

Plus here is a nice, easy, online metals source I just found, through my work (for rod and seamless tubing):

www.onlinemetals.com
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
The Dragonetti d'Salo is like that as well, bent high up. Most basses are bent further down with a shallower angle. There is nothing shy about this bend. Dragonetti being in London at this period with his bass I am sure was an influence. The few Maggini and d'Salo basses I have seen look similar with the bend quite high. It keeps the upper bout as full as possible and then just below the block, it angles in to the neck. I like it.
Me too.
(Hey, Kenny).
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Old 09-25-2010, 10:03 AM
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Me too.
(Hey, Kenny).
(Hey, Paul).
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Old 09-25-2010, 10:30 AM
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Cool endpins..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Swanson View Post
Continuing the endpin experimentation. Probably going to try stainlesss steel rod and brass rod first, maybe titanium rod, and probably some home-brewed, multi-layer brass tube + carbon fiber or stainless or titanium core.

I have clearly lost my mind, but then, who would notice? I am truly amazed at how differently the bass responds and sounds with various materials. I think that it is a further testament to the work Jed did that the bass itself is so transparent and responsive that the endpin makes such a difference.

Interesting website with (somewhat cryptic graphics) but interesting endpin notes and options (mostly for cello, but some bass). I have emailed some with the owner Mike Oishi, who has been great in his endpin-related thoughtfulness. He gave me info on a place that would custom make me a .5" pin, of any metal combination I wanted, but he encouraged me to experiment on my own, as a less costly option. Far down, on the endpin descriptions, he mentions Gary Karr currently using a brass and carbon fiber combo rod on his Ham bass:

http://frenchcellobow.com/products/endpin.html

(bass endpins are at the bottom of the page)

Plus here is a nice, easy, online metals source I just found, through my work (for rod and seamless tubing):

www.onlinemetals.com
I remember testing and listening to a bass being played with a normal steel rod and then the KC Strings fixed endpin. I noticed a huge difference in volume with the KC being much louder. The Bass was an old German/Vieneese style bass in a 3/4 size and not too heavy in weight either. Shortly after I ordered 2 of these from KC to go into my Gilkes and Martini basses, both of which I have since sold but I kept the custom sized endpins. One fits the steel rod size and on the CF (carbon fiber) rod unit. They are not always the exact length needed but sitting on a stool in orchestra I can adjust the angle of the bass to work.

On my bigger heavier basses, I didn't notice the same amount of improvement as I did on my friends bass that first time. Actually, with these basses I can hardly tell the difference as it's so slight.

One thing that hurts some basses is that steel rod when half of the length is still inside the bass and only about half extended. For this reason I cut all of the rods in my personal basses to extend only a few inches at most inside the bass once extended to the desired height.

With the CF rods, I don't notice much difference at all with the longer end still inside the bass. The CF seems to help tonally or maybe just not interfere with the sound if extended into the bass. Still, I use a cut down rod regardless or the KS fixed length peg.

Lighter weight basses seem to be more sensitive to different endpins to my ear over the heavier basses I have tested but this mainly with the CF or Steel pins vs. the fixed KC peg of mixed metal, CF and wood.

Also, on the older and heavier basses I mention they are also high grade expensive instruments with fantastic tone and plenty of volume. I think the current sound of a bass has more to do with it then just the weight as I tride this with my lighter weight Candi bass and it too showed little difference between long steel, short steel or KC Peg. The sound although slightly different each way was nothing to loose sleep over.

Finding the right string I think is a bigger curse and time sucker!
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post

Finding the right string I think is a bigger curse and time sucker!
I know, I know. The whole string thing is another level of pain.

For now, I am sticking with the Belcantos, since they are fairly "Bb." I don't want to change too much at once...I am just monkeying with one element at a time....
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:24 AM
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Endpin update is that a regular 1/2" diameter carbon steel rod is still my favorite option. I have tried stainless steel, nickel silver, steel tube with various fillers (carbon fiber, steel, and brass rods), and solid carbon fiber.

In general, on this bass, less endpin mass increased upper end "openness," brightness, sweetness, and volume, but lost the fuller low end. But it is not just mass; the nickel silver rod weighed more, but because it was slightly more flexible (perhaps), the bottom end was not as good as with the steel.

The stainless steel pin is the only reasonable option, so far; I have been using that in some situations; it is slightly brighter and slightly more even, but lessens the "organ-like" effect on the E string, which I do hate to lose.

Taking a break from endpin tinkering for awhile; too much other stuff to work on right now. Next trials, perhaps, will be high-speed steel rod and silicon bronze rod.
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