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Old 08-23-2007, 10:04 PM
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Lightbulb French Scrolls by Guild Trade?

I read an article in DB Mag. not long ago about the Guilds in France during the 19th century in which it explained why many of the Scrolls looked the same as they were made in special shops or the Carving Guild and not the Violin Makers. Varnishing was considered a separate Guild as well from what I understood.

In the last year or so and over the years I have seen an early 20th century French Scroll on a few different Basses with an open pegbox, Bakelite Gear handles and a Button carving that runs up into the open rear pegbox.

I have seen this on two Basses by Collin-Mezin, one Bass claimed to be modeled after or by Rene Cune, one Jacquet Bass which both Arnold and I agreed was a replacement Scroll and one stamped P.Bisch in the Back Button. In the Elgar book is a Violin cornered model Bass by Quenoil that looks almost exactly like the outline of the Bisch Bass. The 2 C-M Basses and the possible Cune-style Bass are all of Gamba design but from the measurements given on the 4 of them (excluding Quenoil) they seem close enough to have all come out of the same shop. All of these Basses are the French Pear shape (excluding the Jacquet). Only the Quenoil and the Bisch have Violin Corners. All of these were carved round back Basses and plain maple backs. At least two of the Backs are cut on the slab. The inner Rib linings of the Bisch are about 3cm wide and at least 3mm thick. Those are about the biggest lining strips I have ever seen in a Bass. Also, for a slim pear shaped Bass, the Bassbar looks very tall and very long to my eye.

Here are 3 Scrolls from the rear view of which 2 are labelled Collin-Mezzin and the 3rd is the Bisch which is in my shop now.



Tell me if you think these are all from the same shop! If you have some insight to this 20th century trade, please share it.

Last edited by Ken Smith; 06-02-2012 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 08-23-2007, 10:54 PM
Greg Clinkingbeard Greg Clinkingbeard is offline
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It's a trick. I'm pretty sure you just changed the strings and lighting. Not only are they from the same shop, they are the same scroll.
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Old 08-24-2007, 03:36 AM
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Cool the same?

No, Three different Basses from 3 different websites including mine. I think that all 3 are nearly identical on the Button carving vein. The Bisch is like the first two which was the reason I started this Thread.

The Bisch was once listed on consignment at a Shop a few years ago. In speaking with them I mentioned that I thought the Bass although branded Bisch was actually made in the Collin-Mezin shop and may very well be. More recently one in London popped up and that Bass although similar to the C-M Basses are different looking close and just similar but not identical to the other two C-M's. Then I saw this Jacquet Bass with the same Scroll and gears but the Varnish didn't match which made us believe it was a replacement. When the article came out about the various Trade Guilds in 19th century France, it got me thinking again. One other factor is Paul Bisch himself who has placed that very same Stamp as on that back Button on the sticks of numerous Bows. In reading up on him I find that he is not listed as a Bow maker nor is he considered to be one. I just heard that Bisch was a Dealer who did train in Violin making but later became a Dealer in France. So, what did Bisch actually make himself Bass-wise? Maybe nothing!

From now on, I will start looking closer at every Bass I see with that Scroll on it. I am thinking now that the Scrolls although most likely all from the same shop, do not actually ID the maker of the Bass. That's my position at this time.

Period wise I think we are looking at 1905 to about 1950 or so. The Pear shaped Basses did keep coming out of France but all the Scrolls like this one with those Gears seem to be on Basses from the 1920s-'30s so far.

Last edited by Ken Smith; 08-24-2007 at 04:42 PM. Reason: 4 Scrolls now pictured..
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Old 08-24-2007, 11:10 AM
Greg Clinkingbeard Greg Clinkingbeard is offline
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Just screwing with you. They do look almost identical.
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Old 08-24-2007, 02:03 PM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clinkingbeard View Post
Just messing with you. They do look almost identical.
Ok.. I changed a word in your quote. Sounds better I think.
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