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  #1  
Old 02-28-2009, 02:40 AM
Joel Larsson Joel Larsson is offline
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Default I've slapped on the world's most expensive bass!

Last night, Dan Styffe (solo bass player in Oslo Phil, and teacher at the Uni there) was in town to perform a quite new piece by Fredrik Högberg, called "From the First Base." Great performance, and a real cool piece, but what REALLY made my day was that I got to hold Bottesini's Gasparo da Salo in my hand, AND, I got to play some slapping on it!

I feel like twice the man from before.
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:06 AM
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Question Bottesini's Gasparo da Salo???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Larsson View Post
Last night, Dan Styffe (solo bass player in Oslo Phil, and teacher at the Uni there) was in town to perform a quite new piece by Fredrik Högberg, called "From the First Base." Great performance, and a real cool piece, but what REALLY made my day was that I got to hold Bottesini's Gasparo da Salo in my hand, AND, I got to play some slapping on it!

I feel like twice the man from before.
Ah, Bottesini played a bass by Carlo Antonio Testore. Dragonetti was the one who played the d'Salo.

The Testore is a dark colored bass with sloped shoulders and was maybe a large 3/4 or 7/8th by todays standards. The d'Salo is a medium golden brown color and quite broad and long. It will feel more like a large 7/8ths or 4/4 in size.

So, which bass did you play? The d'Salo or the Testore?

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Old 02-28-2009, 01:39 PM
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Andreas Henningsson Andreas Henningsson is offline
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That's just insane... Did it have guts?

Speaking of guts, how's my old Gamut doing?
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Old 02-28-2009, 01:42 PM
Joel Larsson Joel Larsson is offline
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I thought it was strange, too. I know Bottesini is associated mostly with his Testore... (I actually think he had two.)
But, the people I talked to beforehand were positive it was once owned by Bottesini. And I refuse to believe that some fellow bass players would mistake Dragonetti for Bottesini. Plus, isn't Dragonetti's da Salo still i that monastery? Or, maybe he had several? I know the monastery bass was restored in 2007 - it's the one on your photo, right? - but I believe it was returned to the monastery after the restoration. Stupid as I am, I forgot to ask Mr. Styffe about this particular bass' history. It is dated to 1575, though. And it really is a Gasparo da Salo, and is the bass currently insured to the greatest amount of money.
Thomas Martin's online Bottesini biography mentions that Bottesini showed great interest in the makings of da Salo... maybe this one had been in Bottesini's possession during a brief period, too.

No guts! It is used for solo playing these days... and Styffe is known for having a knack for modern stuff... so, definitely no guts.
And, four strings, converted or original I don't know.
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Old 02-28-2009, 02:01 PM
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Thumbs up humm, well..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Larsson View Post
I thought it was strange, too. I know Bottesini is associated mostly with his Testore... (I actually think he had two.)
But, the people I talked to beforehand were positive it was once owned by Bottesini. And I refuse to believe that some fellow bass players would mistake Dragonetti for Bottesini. Plus, isn't Dragonetti's da Salo still i that monastery? Or, maybe he had several? I know the monastery bass was restored in 2007 - it's the one on your photo, right? - but I believe it was returned to the monastery after the restoration. Stupid as I am, I forgot to ask Mr. Styffe about this particular bass' history. It is dated to 1575, though. And it really is a Gasparo da Salo, and is the bass currently insured to the greatest amount of money.
Thomas Martin's online Bottesini biography mentions that Bottesini showed great interest in the makings of da Salo... maybe this one had been in Bottesini's possession during a brief period, too.

No guts! It is used for solo playing these days... and Styffe is known for having a knack for modern stuff... so, definitely no guts.
And, four strings, converted or original I don't know.
Well, it would be nice to see pictures of it. Also, The Dragonetti Bass is in the San Marco Church still but does go out for exhibition and loan on occasion. On the d'Salo strings, it is believed to have been a 6-string originally or that's what I read somewhere.

Also in the Henley book under the instruments he made #13 described as a bass belonged to Bottesini (my bad) of 3-strings. There are 7 DBs described in Henley and one smaller bass Viol. I was not aware of that many d'Salo's. Perhaps some of them have since been disproven, or maybe not.
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Old 02-28-2009, 05:56 PM
Joel Larsson Joel Larsson is offline
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Ah, so my friends were right after all. This particular instrument was bought as an investment by a subdivision of a Norwegian bank, and is now supposed to be played worldwide, I think. This was only its third flight trip I believe, Styffe was a bit concerned that something would happen sometime. He stored it in one of Rabbath Jr's flight cases. I think, if I'm allowed to read between the lines, that he would like to have it stationed somewhere in an orchestra or ensemble, hinting towards four of the Oslo Phil's basses that had gotten quite demolished on tour despite the flight case storage as he was.

My five cent is that it would probably come better to its right in an ensemble. It had this huge, warm, resonant sound which would be a bliss to have backing up a symphony. It didn't project very well - but isn't this typical for old, matured basses? Huge sound that fills the hall with fundament, but too smooth and nice to cut through... it rather backs things up.

But as long as the foundation's regulations forces Styffe to take it one the road, I think he is quite happy to do so. It would take quite the veteran not to get excited every time he touches a da Salo. It was in stunning condition, too. It's nice to see an instrument that apparently has been treated with due respect from day one... and this particular day one was a long time ago!!
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Old 03-19-2009, 09:17 PM
Brandon Tuomikoski Brandon Tuomikoski is offline
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Default De Salo violin

http://cgi.ebay.com/Full-Sized-Violi...QQcmdZViewItem

Is this anything to do with the De salo bass?

Looks like a beautiful violin. Too bad I dont play it anymore
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Old 03-19-2009, 09:53 PM
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Arrow lol..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Tuomikoski View Post
http://cgi.ebay.com/Full-Sized-Violi...QQcmdZViewItem

Is this anything to do with the De salo bass?

Looks like a beautiful violin. Too bad I dont play it anymore
Not even close. A few centuries after he died.

Wanna see d'Salo? http://www.giopaolomaggini.com/w/en/...ments-on-show/
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Old 03-19-2009, 10:10 PM
Brandon Tuomikoski Brandon Tuomikoski is offline
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--- "neck possibly replaced in the 1700s"----

So how old is the bass?

Is it even the same company?

I bet if the bass sounds superb, the violin must be great too.



I thought Stradivarius were expensive. Am I wrong? I guess so.

Wish I had access to a bass that was 1/10,000 of the value of Dragonetti's bass.
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Old 03-19-2009, 10:24 PM
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Cool yo..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Tuomikoski View Post
--- "neck possibly replaced in the 1700s"----

So how old is the bass?

Is it even the same company?

I bet if the bass sounds superb, the violin must be great too.



I thought Stradivarius were expensive. Am I wrong? I guess so.

Wish I had access to a bass that was 1/10,000 of the value of Dragonetti's bass.
That Violin ad is a fraud. made maybe 3 weeks ago in Hungary. Worth maybe $300., period.

A real d'Salo Voilin, Bass, Viola, Cello.. anything from him or Maggini, upwards from $500,000. A Strad Violin, upwards from a Million$$.

These instruments do not sell on Ebay and if advertised there, is from a BIG and Famous Violin shop. There are not that many of them. There are probably 10x more Strads than Maggini's and d'Salos combined that have survived or that were made as only half the Strads survive.

You ask about the bass and the company? These are People, not companies that made them and that is a Violin on Ebay, not a bass.

Quote:
Wish I had access to a bass that was 1/10,000 of the value of Dragonetti's bass.
No you don't. Do your math. A set of strings will cost more than 1/10,000 of any bass, Draginetti's d'Salo included and the Bass in question in this thread was Bottesini's. Still, I doubt either of their former d'Salos would fetch more than a Million$$. Two of them sold after that Expo I posted and they were closer to Half a Mil' than a Mil' from what I have heard. Maybe I could ask the appraiser who I know that did the Papers for those sales.
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Old 03-19-2009, 11:09 PM
Brandon Tuomikoski Brandon Tuomikoski is offline
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Ok I see.

But a strad did sell on ebay for $3 mill a long time ago.

thanks for the info.

I need to read up on Bottesini and Dragonetti.

Any good books out there?
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:13 PM
Joel Larsson Joel Larsson is offline
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For Bottesini, Thomas Martin has a neat bio at http://www.thomasmartin.co.uk/about/articles.html.
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:45 AM
Calvin Marks Calvin Marks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Tuomikoski View Post
Ok I see.

But a strad did sell on ebay for $3 mill a long time ago.

thanks for the info.

I need to read up on Bottesini and Dragonetti.

Any good books out there?
Dragonetti in England is good...very expensive but worth it.

Last edited by Calvin Marks; 04-10-2009 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 03-29-2009, 10:11 PM
Martin Sheridan Martin Sheridan is offline
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Default Gary Karr's bass

I imagine that when Gary Karr's bass, the "Amati" is sold, it will fetch a record price. It was always referred to as an Amati of 1611. The last time I saw it a couple of years ago it was in the posession of The Guarneri House in Grand Rapids, MI. Gary had donated it to the ISB and I think it is supposed to tour several shops and then be sold at auction to raise money for the ISB. All of the fine solo players I know want this bass and don't seem to bothered one wit that it is not by the Amati. It's a damn fine sounding solo bass, and I hope that it will end up in the hands of another Gary Karr.
There should be at least one day a year when bass players the world over bow in Gary Karr's direction. Thank you Gary for taking the bass to where it is today and for being such a fine human being.
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Old 03-29-2009, 11:21 PM
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Cool Amati here, Amati there..

The last time I spoke with a world leading expert, we discussed the fact that there are no confirmed Amati Basses period. All the Basses claimed to be Amati are so far unconfirmed as far as everyone agreeing on. Testing the age of the Top wood is another way of disproving but not always. The Bass can still be old, made in the same town and decade as one of the Amati generations but made by another local maker just 'influenced' by Amati at best.

After 300-400 years, it's hard to tell if all the parts of the Basses are original to itself including the Varnish as well much less the exact maker.

If we could list all the Basses claiming to be Amati's, one might get the impression that they specialized in them. Like with Strad, it was much more lucrative to make and sell Violins and the occasional Cello. After all, who could afford a Bass back then from a living legend?

We see more Basses coming out of early Brescia, Venice and Milan than Cremona. Why is that?

By the way, we see many erroneous claims for d'Salo and Maggini as well. More by Maggini by far as the English made so many copies that some of them are somewhat convincing. Actually, erroneous claims are more common than not.
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:13 PM
Joel Larsson Joel Larsson is offline
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Martin, I hope I was clear on that this bass is the one currently INSURED to the largest amount of money, which isn't exactly the same thing. Bottesini's Testore would also be up there but it's in Japan now and I don't know how they decided on insuring that one... and if Dragonetti's monastery d'Salo was to hit the market, people would go crazy. And yes, the "Amati" will probably sell for quite a neat little sum, being Amati or no...

Speaking of Maggini, how many confirmed are there out there? I only know of two, one in the Stockholm Royal Opera and one which is actually passing through the last stages of restoration in order to be sold by Thomas Martin. Quarrington is said to have one, but I think that is a "Maggini."
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:53 PM
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Default Joel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Larsson View Post
Martin, I hope I was clear on that this bass is the one currently INSURED to the largest amount of money, which isn't exactly the same thing. Bottesini's Testore would also be up there but it's in Japan now and I don't know how they decided on insuring that one... and if Dragonetti's monastery d'Salo was to hit the market, people would go crazy. And yes, the "Amati" will probably sell for quite a neat little sum, being Amati or no...

Speaking of Maggini, how many confirmed are there out there? I only know of two, one in the Stockholm Royal Opera and one which is actually passing through the last stages of restoration in order to be sold by Thomas Martin. Quarrington is said to have one, but I think that is a "Maggini."
*Joel's Bass was appraised a few times as a 'Pietro Santo Maggini' by reputable shops, 3 of 4 appraisals and one of them attributes his bass to Giovanni Paulo Maggini, the real Maggini. I say real because it is believed that Pietro Santo attached the Maggini name to his own after G.P.'s death. Santo (aka Zanetto, the 17th century maker not the 16th century master) worked in Brescia as well but from about 1630-1680. G.P. Maggini died about 1631/2 of the Plague that swept Northern Italy from about 1630. It was believed about a century ago that Pietro Santo was the son or Giovanni Paolo M. but this has since been disproved. I did state before that Joel's Bass is possibly British but that was from a conversation we had by Email and I must go with todays message received by him. I think Joel tried posting this information but had just signed in to the Forum and was not yet approved which we have to do manually. Then I guess he just emailed us thru the Forum because he couldn't post yet. For this I say 'Sorry Joel', I was only posting information I though was accurate.

The one Tom Martin has now may be one I played that was once owned by Walter Botti, NY Phil in the 1960's then it was Dave Pearlman's, Cleve. Orch. and then in Minnesota Orch. and now a wealthy banker/Amatuer friend of Tom who also deals in Basses. That bass is believed by at least one person as old German and others say not Maggini but similar from a later period. Nice deep sounding bass of about 300 years old with very deep ribs.

There was a fair recently and some of it Published in the ISB magazine with a few Maggini's and a 'd'Salo. One Maggini is in the National Symphony as well. Robertson's has or had one as well. I am not 100% sure but might be the same as in the National or maybe another one.

*On Maggini it is also important to take a few actual facts into consideration when trying to ID a genuine Maggini or disclaim one. The FFs on the Maggini have two distinct features or actually three if you take into account the bevel of the cut which is not easily noticed at a glance. What is easy to see are the f-hole eyes, their related diameter between the upper and lower and the narrow width itself which Maggini did for tonal reasons. The upper f-eyes on the average string instrument are smaller than the lower eyes. On a Maggini, the upper eyes are either the same or slightly larger diameter then the lower. This is the smoking gun on Joel's Bass. No tests are needed to see that.

In closing this edited Post I say "hello Joel Quarrington and welcome to the Forum". Hey, if this is how you get someone to join I should continue to mis-attribute a few other famous bass players basses. For those of you not familiar with him let me say that Joel is one of the living greats on the DB. He also is just about the top 5ths tuning master in the DB in the world. Joel is the former Principal of the Toronto Symphony.

I hope this error in Bass attribution turns our meeting here on the forum into something positive with Joel answering a few questions from time to time.

Now Joel, we need pictures of your wonderful bass posted here. There just isn't enough to see of it on your website or anywhere else on the web. We welcome a closer look at your Italian classic.

Last edited by Ken Smith; 04-10-2009 at 01:31 AM. Reason: *An Email straight from Joel Q. has shed some new light on his Bass.
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  #18  
Old 04-10-2009, 01:33 AM
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Lightbulb The Quarrington attributed Maggini..

I received an Email from Joel a short time ago and in turn edited my post above. Please read it..
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Old 04-10-2009, 06:47 AM
Joel Larsson Joel Larsson is offline
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Aha! Maybe you should further mis-attribute the one Tom Martin sells as a real G.P.
Then again, maybe it is a different bass - after having met him, I doubt that he would sell anything under the wrong name, or perhaps the true nature of things were discovered beyond doubt during the vast restoration that the bass only just got out of. I think my teacher is going to buy it, if it isn't too much of an orchestra-only instrument. If he does, he's going to record a Bottesini record with it. With Joel Q now in the picture, it seems like Maggini and Bottesini are names that pulls people together!
If Joel really shows up, I hope you realize you are warmly welcome! I have your CD. Or did do do more? Maybe I ought to read up more before posting stuff. But I am officially stupid, so I never learn. I was also going to ask if this Ali guy is the current principal in Toronto, but now I actually did my homework beforehand, and found that he's in Montreal. I thin about going to a course in England where he's going to teach.
Am I going awfully off-topic again? Maybe I should conclude with stating that even the da Salo I slapped upon didn't look 450 years of age to an untrained eye. Maybe some instruments actually got the care they deserved?
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