Endpin talk...

[Calvin Marks]

Originally Posted by Pino Cazzaniga

I saw some Rubner and some Pollmann instruments with two holes in the block, one for the end button and one for the endpin. I don't like it so much, but it make easier to look at the soundpost fit when the basses are strung.
About bent endpins I have no experience, as none of my clients use them.
I made some "all wood" stuff . The button has a conical hole in which a shaft ( also conical at the upper part ) is fit. At the tip of the shaft a screw is sharpened for wooden floors. The hole need to be waxed to take the shaft off. For different heights it need different shafts, plus one, very short, to transport. It seem to work with sound, mostly with readyness, even with rubber, but it may be a little romantic feeling, it's hard to say...

I assume that by having the tailpiece tied to the end-button instead of the end-pin it would reduce the tension of the tailpiece on the body. Perhaps this would work for an old, fragile instrument that's very thinly built...In my experience Pollman's are built like a TANK, so I don't know why two holes are necessary.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

I assume that by having the tailpiece tied to the end-button instead of the end-pin it would reduce the tension of the tailpiece on the body. Perhaps this would work for an old, fragile instrument that's very thinly built...In my experience Pollman's are built like a TANK, so I don't know why two holes are necessary.

Ask Pollmann why. I have seen this on many of their Basses and think it's a nice idea. I have seen it on some older Viennese Basses as well.

[Mike Mandelas]

I have tried all alternatives in my three basses. In wooden floors the KC endpin (carbon rod with wooden pin) works better in all of them. The CF rod i bought from Upton makes also an improvement in wooden floors but in concrete (tiles, marble etc) the effect is not so strong. "Better" means louder, warmer and IMHO more fundamentals.

However, following some of master Arnold's observations, i managed to optimise the sound of two "dark" basses with metal rods in ebony endpins housings (cut in the needed length). In those basses the wooden pins didn't make any difference. Now i'm working in a German hybrid which has a"choked"
sound. The CF by Upton seems to be the best solution so far but i have to record the change each time in order to arrive in proper conclusions.

[Ken Smith]

I don't know where Arnold and Jeff gets theirs (the same one) but it's about the best I have seen anywhere. Arnold? Does it have a name?

Anyway, my current main Bass is kinda huge so I have it all the way in or an inch out at most for the spike for sitting. I did one orchestra concert standing and it was difficult to find a height I liked for both the left or right hand combined. Sitting seems to make the difference. Most or my endpin in in the bass, not sticking out. I have cut one of them already and may cut this one as well. If I lean the bass back further I can raise the 'pin up a bit but then the angle of my bow arm is increased and I don't like that at all. The straighter the better for me.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

Hey guys.

ONYX Musical Products just came out with an all rosewood or ebony end-pin system, meaning the rod and plug are all rosewood or ebony. I saw one of these recently on a bass in a shop in Toronto, they look, sound and work GREAT.

http://shop5.mailordercentral.com/le.../products/318/

The onyx pin is built solidly but in my experience with the older style onxy the rubber tip tends to unscrew and rattle when playing. rubber a bit too soft. Also, the adjuster is a knurled knob and hard to relly tighten if you need it. tends to unscrew too. I don't know about the new onyx shown.

[Calvin Marks]

Originally Posted by Mike Mandelas

I have tried all alternatives in my three basses. In wooden floors the KC endpin (carbon rod with wooden pin) works better in all of them. The CF rod i bought from Upton makes also an improvement in wooden floors but in concrete (tiles, marble etc) the effect is not so strong. "Better" means louder, warmer and IMHO more fundamentals.

However, following some of master Arnold's observations, i managed to optimise the sound of two "dark" basses with metal rods in ebony endpins housings (cut in the needed length). In those basses the wooden pins didn't make any difference. Now i'm working in a German hybrid which has a"choked"
sound. The CF by Upton seems to be the best solution so far but i have to record the change each time in order to arrive in proper conclusions.

This is what I use:

http://www.n-pin.com

Finest end-pin in the market, the carbon fibre rod weighs around 30 grams.

[Joel Larsson]

Originally Posted by N-Pin

Cello N-PIN: $219.87 for full unit
Bass N-PIN: $208.44 for full unit

At last something that's cheaper for bass! I like this company.

[Calvin Marks]

Originally Posted by Joel Larsson

At last something that's cheaper for bass! I like this company.

The maker was a professional bassist and a trained machinist.

You don't have to worry about stripping the screw since it has a bike-clamp mechanism. Also the carbide tip never wears down and it works on almost every surface, very stable!

[Robert Anzellotti]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

...I am wondering why they can't use the regular Endpin socket rather than drilling a second hole in the Block for the tilted unit. Also, how is it different to use a bent Endpin or just tilt the Bass with a regular Endpin. ...

Are you referring to the Laborie? And are you suggesting that the through-hole in the socket could be angled? I have not only pondered this, but done it. The through-hole is always straight simply because it's way easier to manufacture a socket this way. Making it angled not only complicates production, but the amount of angle is limited by the bore and height of the bottom block, and the diameter of the socket. I made some extra wide sockets for my basses and drilled the holes at an angle, but was only able to achieve about 10°. I think a typical Laborie installation is 30° or more.

Still, I find that even the modestly angled pin was worth doing. Besides the effect on playability of moving the center of gravity rearwards (which I find quite positive), my reason for doing it was to reduce skating. I don't know why, but I cannot use a rubber tip when sitting. Unless I have my sharp point deeply embedded in the floor, or have a belt connecting my pin to my stool, I will chase the bass all the way up to the conductor before the first break. Having an angled pin greatly reduces this tendancy.

Also, you reduce the active length of the endpin, which is especially beneficial for tall players. Having 15" of pin sticking out in front of you is bad for several reasons, stress on the bottom block being a big one. Cellists have adopted the "angle" in large numbers. I think they know something. Since most bassists don't extend their endpins very far, it is a lesser issue for us, but I think not insignificant.

So far, the choices are to either bore a second hole (Laborie), schlepp some heavy hardware - which looks like it came from a suspension bridge - (Eggpin), or use a bent pin which destroys the collar/setscrew. I never tried to market my angled socket because I decided players wouldn't accept the fatness or reduced angle. I think angled pins are a good idea, but a good design has yet to be offered.

[Eric Hochberg]

I'm thinking about replacing my endpin and would like to know which you prefer. I've looked at the KCStrings, Onyx, Ulsa on the web. Any others?